This is very worrying. Don't they have financial advisors at Tesla? An automaker should focus on making cars. This is what they specialise in and what they are good at. They should not be speculating with financial assets. Tesla shareholders can do that themselves, if they wish to.
Tesla is not an automaker and i don't know why people keep calling it that. It is a technology company. It's designed chips, software, Cars, trucks, manufacturing lines, battery's, solar panels - And oh my god, if you saw the random products the engineering team designed in Keto Factory outside Fremont, you'd think very differently about Tesla as a company.
Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future
501–510 of 1001 posts
Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future
#502Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future
#503As a currency, gold is too heavy to be practical and too malleable to be trusted without testing it every time it is used.
Bitcoin by nature would seem to avoid these problems, but it does introduce the new risks and limitations inherent with passwords.
Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future
#504Bitcoin is a mystery to me. Somehow it's hailed as revolutionising the economy, by replacing currency with a worse kind of currency. It feels like this is where all the "how to get rich quick" book writers and other hustle bros went and created one giant financial pyramid, which works in quite simple way: - buy bitcoin - tell everyone around how revolutionary it is, so they buy it and what you holding increases in va…
Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future
#505Earlier quoted context omitted.
“The root problem with conventional currency is all the trust that's required to make it work. The central bank must be trusted not to debase the currency, but the history of fiat currencies is full of breaches of that trust.” -Satoshi Nakamoto Feb. 2009 If this isn’t resonating with you after the past year, I don’t know. I was forced to watch my government bungle a pandemic in the worst possible way and then asked t…
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the history of Bitcoin also exposed issues with not having a central bank? Theft that can't be reversed, digital wallets that can't be unlocked, value that can't be insured, etc. Currency fundamentally requires trust - at the very least it requires trust that the asset you are receiving is roughly equivalent in worth to the asset you're giving as part of the transaction. In the cas…
Checkout uniswap. Which is a decentralized exchange which the smart contract ensuring you get X asset for Y btc.
Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future
#506Bitcoin is a mystery to me. Somehow it's hailed as revolutionising the economy, by replacing currency with a worse kind of currency. It feels like this is where all the "how to get rich quick" book writers and other hustle bros went and created one giant financial pyramid, which works in quite simple way: - buy bitcoin - tell everyone around how revolutionary it is, so they buy it and what you holding increases in va…
"Bitcoin For The Open Minded Skeptic" - https://www.paradigm.xyz/Bitcoin_For_The_Open_Minded_Skeptic...
"Stone Ridge 2020 Shareholder Letter" - https://www.microstrategy.com/content/dam/website-assets/col...
Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future
#507Earlier quoted context omitted.
“The root problem with conventional currency is all the trust that's required to make it work. The central bank must be trusted not to debase the currency, but the history of fiat currencies is full of breaches of that trust.” -Satoshi Nakamoto Feb. 2009 If this isn’t resonating with you after the past year, I don’t know. I was forced to watch my government bungle a pandemic in the worst possible way and then asked t…
People dont use dollars because they choose to. They use dollars because they have to. The US government doesnt need to earn dollars to spend them. It simply has to require for us to earn dollars to pay it taxes to enforce the use of its currency.
Inside its borders the US Dollar also derives value from chartalism, but the currency clearly has other sources of de facto value.
Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future
#508Bitcoin is a mystery to me. Somehow it's hailed as revolutionising the economy, by replacing currency with a worse kind of currency. It feels like this is where all the "how to get rich quick" book writers and other hustle bros went and created one giant financial pyramid, which works in quite simple way: - buy bitcoin - tell everyone around how revolutionary it is, so they buy it and what you holding increases in va…
“The root problem with conventional currency is all the trust that's required to make it work. The central bank must be trusted not to debase the currency, but the history of fiat currencies is full of breaches of that trust.” -Satoshi Nakamoto Feb. 2009 If this isn’t resonating with you after the past year, I don’t know. I was forced to watch my government bungle a pandemic in the worst possible way and then asked t…
https://fredblog.stlouisfed.org/2021/01/whats-behind-the-rec...
Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future
#509Oh noes, if this starts a trend, becomes widespread, and businesses start hoarding crypto tokens instead of investing in building stuff, it could cause a great depression pretty much the same way gold hoarding caused the economy to collapse in 1929. When people, businesses and banks start hording tokens instead of investing in building and maintaining the production capacity of consumables, the ratio of value of toke…
> gold hoarding caused the economy to collapse in 1929 You have a source for that? > When people, businesses and banks start hording tokens instead of investing in building and maintaining the production capacity of consumables Central banks are pumping money into the economy at an incredible rate. There's no shortage of credit or liquidity anywhere.
Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future
#510I don't understand all the Crypto hate on this site. Since when have hackers become the luddites to new ways of finance?
> I don't understand all the Crypto hate on this site. Since when have hackers become the luddites to new ways of finance? For me, it's because nobody can explain what the value offering of Bitcoin is - mainly the question 'what can I actualy do with a bitcoin?' . It's a bad currency because it is slow to exchange and costs lots of money to exchange - I can't use it to buy my coffee in the morning. It's a bad non-spe…
> It's a bad currency because it is slow to exchange and costs lots of money to exchange - I can't use it to buy my coffee in the morning.
I'd say that there are 2 ways to address this:
1. Bitcoin is less analogous to cash or credit cards, and more analogous to the US dollar. Today, when you buy a cup of coffee with a credit card, your issuing processor updates a database entry reflecting that you owe the coffeeshop $X. At the end of the day, the issuing processor submits a batch file to a network of automated clearing houses to reflect this movement of money. This process is extremely asynchronous, and can take up to weeks to complete. Processing a Bitcoin transaction on the blockchain is analogous to that very slow, very asynchronous process.
2. Bitcoin is about as "bad" a currency as gold is. It's fairly impractical to pay for a cup of coffee with gold, unless you are able to carry a pile of it that's cut into small enough pieces that you can reasonably transact for cheap items like coffee. A crypto bull would tell you that if your use case is to buy a cup of coffee, you're better off using a credit card through a trusted network, where the currency that's being transacted is BTC or ETH instead of USD, JPY, EUR, GBP, etc. The reason why you would have a trusted bank account storing BTC or ETH instead of USD etc is because it lets you opt-out of being at the behest of a central bank that might co-opt a monetary policy you don't agree with — or worse, can render your currency useless if they do the wrong thing. It also lets you digitally transact with people in a trust-less way if you really need to. That is to say: you don't use Bitcoin to buy a cup of coffee, you use it to pay for porn on PornHub or OnlyFans because those companies have blocked by the major payment networks. Right now the only way to pay for stuff like that is by withdrawing cash and mailing briefcases of it.
> It's a bad non-speculative asset, because it can't produce anything to deliver returns.
It produces one, and only one thing, and that's trustless transactions. As long as there is a market need for this, it has some use, even if it's a niche use-case.
> And if the answer to the question 'what can i do with a bitcoin?' is 'Wait until it is valuable, and then you can turn it into a currency you can actually spend' then it's not actually fulfilling what it set out to achieve.
I think this is a good criticism, but is one that a bull might argue will hold less true over time. In the bull's perfect world, there exists enough tooling and frameworks to allow someone to live their entire life off of Bitcoin while still interoperating with the tradition financial systems seamlessly.