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Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

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Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#501
post #146

I've read comments saying, "if you don't like Apple's policies, build a new smartphone." Are these people aware that that the same type of argument lead to the creation of parler: "if you don't like twitter censorship, build a new platform". It will be built. What then? At this point we are heading towards a complete mitosis of our information channels based on political ideology.

Sure. If you build a new phone OS, twitter and facebook can try to stop you by not writing apps for it, or possibly even detecting that a user of your hardware is trying to visit them and block the connection. Same difference.

When apple blocks an app for nebulous reasons (such as the hey.com debacle), that's annoying. When google blocks an app because the authors are running a bitcoin miner or other scam, then everybody rejoices. When the microsoft phone blocks an app because it lets you screenshare to machines running linux or apple's OS, people reach for the phone to call their lawyer or representative to start proceedings on anti-trust. When the linux phone blocks an app because they are legally obligated to do this, as a judge has informed them they are compelled to do so because the app is a marketplace for murder contracts, I think most people rejoice as well.

There is no absolute rule to make sense of that. It's what society, preferably, but not neccessarily codified in law, is going to stand for. It's not an easy rule. "Prevent companies from banning anything for any reason" means you end up with marketplaces for murder and viruses/miners/user-hostile stuff. And no cheating by allowing google to paste big warnings on an app download. Who decides what text is in that warning, and who decides which user-hostile stuff warrants this banner? Apple? We're right back to where we started.

If outlawing censorship is not feasible (or it is, but you're going to have to tell me how, because the obvious route leads to far greater problems), then the only other option I can think of is to break up these companies. Ensure there are many.

This also does not work. One of the better examples of this, is the internet itself: You'd think _anyone_ can host _whatever_ they want, and unless it is clearly deeply criminal, you can find somebody to host it for you. In countries with creative laws if you must.

Except, that's just not how it works. There are about 8 major CDNs on the planet. If they all decide they want nothing to do with you, it is very hard to host stuff. 8kun and co run into this problem from time to time. At least one of these CDNs is acutely aware of the grave responsibility and blogs about their struggles with it. Do you allow a hate-spewing platform inciting crimes, or do you become judge jury and executioner on speech?

Perhaps 8 is enough, but 2 is not enough. So, if the plan is to split up these companies, how many phone platforms are legally required? How much can they work together? Should the US codify into law that it is illegal to buy an iPhone if apple's marketshare exceeds 50% (as iOS is the most popular platform in the US, just naming as an example). Should a country find social networks and start handing out fines if too many within it use the same marketplace?

I get the concern, but without more detail, you're engaging in something I find rather problematic: Pointing at an incredibly complicated problem, making a pithy statement about how bad that is, but then not naming a solution to this problem, and insinuating the solution is easy (maybe I'm imagining it, but the drama of your conclusion, whilst perhaps warranted, sure does sound like a "somebody should DO something" kinda claim. It disregards the complex nature of trying to address the issue).

So, let me turn it around: Okay. Yes, this is a bit scary, I agree.

What do we do about it?

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#503
You know you are a moderate when both sides want you dead.

This guarantees a renaissance for new p2p technologies, or a war, but still hoping the former mitigates the latter. It's very important to provide people with alternatives to violence, and every platform removal reduces the number of options by one. Discourse is the only alternative to violence. Remove discourse, and you literally walk right into it.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#506

If people on an app continually call for violence and violate your TOS you can boot them off. Especially if the app in question has no good faith moderation of content to meet your terms of service and their terms of service are either lacking or wink wink levels of enforcement. You can have ANY political perspective you want! Lower taxes, raise taxes, immigration policy, school choice, charter schools WHATEVER! You…

It just happened to be that Google, Apple and Amazon all banned Parler within hours of each other, shortly after all the big social media companies banned President Trump, thus boosting Parler as an alternative social media platform.

This is not about fiduciary duty, nor is it about legal liability, this is a Silicon Valley hivemind moving in unison, arguably as a result of unhealthy discourse on their own social medias.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#507
I’m noticing that a lot of people in the discussions on this and related topics are spilling ink on themes of free speech and civil rights, while utterly failing to even mention, let alone address, the fact that seditious attacks on our government were, and are still being, openly plotted and instigated on these platforms.

I don’t think any argument that fails to deal with this can be taken seriously.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#508
It seems like Parler gives law enforcement an easy way to track these folks and see what they’re planning. Is it really a good idea to send them underground?

I’m also reading a lot about how you can’t incite violence. We should all be able to agree on that. What concerns me is that many used Facebook/Twitter over the summer to plan riots, bombing of federal buildings and even seceding from the USA in Seattle. The problem is not that we shouldn’t take action against this stuff. The problem is that we’re doing it selectively. This is sure to worsen the scenario all around.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#509

If people on an app continually call for violence and violate your TOS you can boot them off. Especially if the app in question has no good faith moderation of content to meet your terms of service and their terms of service are either lacking or wink wink levels of enforcement. You can have ANY political perspective you want! Lower taxes, raise taxes, immigration policy, school choice, charter schools WHATEVER! You…

The market has not judged "pro-violence" speech to be demonetized.

Platforms sanction calls to violent riots from Black Lives Matter and Antifa. So this is all fully based on the political feelings of the platform.

Edit "Platforms also sanction the use of violence by nation states".

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#510
Overreaching is an understatement. This is a heavy handed censorship.

I don't recall Twitter or Whatsapp getting booted from AWS when they are routinely used for organizing riots and violence and a lot worse stuff.

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