WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app • Hacker News Board

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#501

Post by patall » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 7:58 AM UTC

lodovic wrote: post #488

MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used Signal for years, and for most of that time only had about three people who also used it in my contacts. My wife recently got her entire extended family to use Signal. She has always refused to use WhatsApp. They all love Signal now, and use it all the time. However, this was during a family crisis. During the Covid lockdowns, many companies I know used Signal as their preferred non corporate communication…

In Europe the WhatsApp alternatives are generally framed as tools for pedophiles and organized crime. Even installing them on your phone may alert LEO that you're suspect. This move by Facebook is highly troubling. edit: mass downvote! here are the links. this link talks specifically about signal protocol being used by organized crime https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/waarom-criminel... https://www.securit…

Do you have an source for that claim. I am in Europe and have never heard that. The closest I know of is right wing groups using Telegramm for their Anti-Covid agitation.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#502

Post by webmobdev » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 8:02 AM UTC

kyrra wrote: post #422

webmobdev wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't use any of the private and popular messaging apps on my phone and do rely on SMS and phone calls to stay in touch. But there are limitations: - SMS is not encrypted. - SMS supports text only. MMS is not well supported, and often not free. - SMS is sometimes not as "instant" as it can be delayed. - Delivery reports and, read receipts are not user-friendly, and maybe unreliable, too. - Group SMS support depends…

FYI, Google has a working end-to-end encryption with RCS. https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/19/21574451/android-rcs-enc...

Thanks for sharing this, good to know. But in the context of this discussion, it is kind of bad news. Those who avoid WhatsApp (and other messengers) do so because they don't want to trapped within it - SMS and RCS promises us more mobility and privacy because it is a standardised technology that works with all cellular service providers. Using a Google app for RCS, instead of WhatsApp, will just trap you within Google ecosystem, instead of Facebook.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#503

Post by lrvick » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 8:04 AM UTC

submeta wrote: post #467

I am in the EU, and this is what I have been presented with: „ By tapping Agree, you accept the new terms, which take effect on February 8, 2021. After this date, you’ll need to accept the new terms to continue using WhatsApp. You can also visit the Help Center if you would prefer to delete your account and would like more information. To learn more about how WhatsApp processes your data, read our updated privacy pol…

So you are going to move from one centralized, walled garden, privacy hostile platform that hard requires Google/Apple ecosystems to get signed updates... to another with identical drawbacks.

I suggest something that lets you use any client/platform you want, uses the same crypto primitives, and lets you choose what server/country your data is hosted in and change your mind any time, e.g Matrix.

How many times do centralized services like VK, WhatsApp, Instagram, Apple, etc need to get co-opted into enforcing the will of private entities or governments before we learn our lesson?

The only network services this won't become true of at some point in the future are those with decentralized clients and servers obeying a common documented protocol.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#504

Post by easytiger » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 8:05 AM UTC

qwertox wrote: post #433

Hammershaft wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram is fantastic! Frankly I think it has a better ux then Whatsapp, especially considering the desktop apps.

Telegram isn't serious about privacy. They made my number searchable and notified people who have me in their Google contact list even though I didn't grant Telegram access to my contact list (before the time when Android would enforce this with permissions) and didn't allow them to use my number for anything. Then it turned out that they have a setting where one can opt out, but what good is that if you already were…

I'm fairly certain I enabled all possible privacy options when I installed telegram. I went to specific lengths to do so. I still get "xyz has joined telegram!" when a new friend joins up from my contact list.

Yep: just checked. Nothing more I can do to increase privacy settings. Zero confidence in it after that

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#505

Post by rcMgD2BwE72F » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 8:05 AM UTC

lodovic wrote: post #488

MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used Signal for years, and for most of that time only had about three people who also used it in my contacts. My wife recently got her entire extended family to use Signal. She has always refused to use WhatsApp. They all love Signal now, and use it all the time. However, this was during a family crisis. During the Covid lockdowns, many companies I know used Signal as their preferred non corporate communication…

In Europe the WhatsApp alternatives are generally framed as tools for pedophiles and organized crime. Even installing them on your phone may alert LEO that you're suspect. This move by Facebook is highly troubling. edit: mass downvote! here are the links. this link talks specifically about signal protocol being used by organized crime https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/waarom-criminel... https://www.securit…

Source?

My friends and family have mostly been using Signal for over a year and we never had such worry. I also know laywers, lawmakers, doctors and CEOs who are also using Signal for important communications.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#506

Post by Karupan » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 8:05 AM UTC

Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #434

My friends & relatives in India are outright offended when I say that I don't use WhatsApp and so I cannot join their groups. Businesses here have started using WhatsApp as an alternative to SMS, email for sending spam to important package tracking information (without prior permission). But I see this as the best opportunity to convert some of my contacts to Signal/Email as this stays in mainstream news for a while(…

In the same boat here. I really want to get rid of WhatsApp, but almost all my contacts exclusively use it for chat and updates.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#507

Post by SpaceRaccoon » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 8:08 AM UTC

cabamba wrote: post #383

qalmakka wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I managed to get almost everyone I know on Telegram in the last few years, to the point I get a WhatsApp message less than once a week. On the other hand, I usually hundreds of messages daily on Telegram. It's not hard if there's already interest among the people you talk with and you find the right way to get them on board.

Don't you think that Telegram has the same monetization problems (it burns "a few hundred million dollars a year" while the owner left Russia with $300m in his bank account a few years ago) and they already announced their monetization plans https://techcrunch.com/2020/12/23/telegram-to-launch-an-ad-p... Where would you move next?

What's wrong with their monetization plans?

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#508

Post by _flux » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 8:08 AM UTC

Siira wrote: post #142

input_sh wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram is only end-to-end encrypted in a feature called secret chats. Groups and channels and individual chats are not end-to-end encrypted. In other words, Telegram doesn't even deserve to be in the same conversation. Even if it had the best encryption out there (however you define that), that wouldn't mean anything when it's not used in like 98% of the cases (percentage pulled out of my ass). It's like comparing…

Telegram not having e2e by default is a feature; It allows great multi-device usage.

Well, matrix can to multi-device usage great and has E2E, so I don't see why that would be a hard requirement or even any kind of requirement.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#509

Post by midasz » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 8:09 AM UTC

lodovic wrote: post #488

MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used Signal for years, and for most of that time only had about three people who also used it in my contacts. My wife recently got her entire extended family to use Signal. She has always refused to use WhatsApp. They all love Signal now, and use it all the time. However, this was during a family crisis. During the Covid lockdowns, many companies I know used Signal as their preferred non corporate communication…

In Europe the WhatsApp alternatives are generally framed as tools for pedophiles and organized crime. Even installing them on your phone may alert LEO that you're suspect. This move by Facebook is highly troubling. edit: mass downvote! here are the links. this link talks specifically about signal protocol being used by organized crime https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/waarom-criminel... https://www.securit…

That's absolute nonsense

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#510

Post by sdfhbdf » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 8:10 AM UTC

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #38

srfvtgb wrote: post #29

A lot of people mention Telegram, as far as I can tell, it's a worse Signal. What advantages does it have over Signal?

Depending on your perspective, Signal is actually a worse Telegram. Telegram has the best UX and feature set ouf of all messaging apps, and privacy does not outweigh convenience for the vast majority of people.

I'm still confused as to why Telegram doesn't have message reactions which every other platform has. I understand that some peoeple feel like it's not needed but if they don't want they wouldn't have to use and in my workflow when talking in groups is to use them extensively and replying with stickers is a terrible experience.