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U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

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Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#501

It's the practical erosion of Free Speech. Liberal (small "l" liberal) democracy and liberal science thrives on members: 1. Being willing to admit they may be wrong 2. Having access to a diverse information diet But the past two decades have shown erosion of not only legal Free Speech, but practical free speech: * Whereas previously they were just ignored (or even rebutted), today employees, students, and professors…

You're trying to blame something you don't like on something else you don't like, but it doesn't fit. The censorship and punishment you claim as new is plainly and obviously not a recent development, look at how socialist and capitalist ideas have been treated for the last century. Or how American evangelism has treated "dangerous" ideas for even longer than that. https://www.amazon.com/Scandal-Evangelical-Mind-Mark-…

Maybe the problem is more an unequal distribution of "freeness" of speech across the society; grouped as the ruling political class, the opposition political class, and the distribution of thought in the populace.

The ruling class says whatever it wants with belief that there can never be any negative results for any action they take (max "freeness"),

the opposition can't talk about anything in a substantive way because all they do is react to the inane and random political grenades thrown by the ruling party (very constrained "freeness" really. Being forced to respond to propaganda-maximizing controversy after propaganda-effectiveness-maximizing controversy is a record that sucks to play and is definitely forced onto the air more than everyone wants -- and the targets of the propaganda blame the wrong people for why they have to keep listening to it ... )

the people are left with no meaningful political voice (0 freeness of speech) because there's virtually 0 correlation between anything being talked about in the political dances and anything that is actually sufficiently practical to talk about as to be worth the cognitive attention required to talk about it ... You can't have free political speech when there are no political engagements worth talking about ...

The "team sport" that is the current political landscape is not at all a fun or useful game -- some amount of fun and usefulness is gonna need to be found and introduced to the process of defining government to help move out of this ...

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#502

It's the practical erosion of Free Speech. Liberal (small "l" liberal) democracy and liberal science thrives on members: 1. Being willing to admit they may be wrong 2. Having access to a diverse information diet But the past two decades have shown erosion of not only legal Free Speech, but practical free speech: * Whereas previously they were just ignored (or even rebutted), today employees, students, and professors…

These are the same people and ideologies that made up the white supremacist dominionist militia movements in the 80s that were only treated as a threat after the OKC bombing and have been purposefully allowed free rein under Trump. This aint cause of fucking "cancel culture"

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#503

"Democracy is a system in which parties lose elections" - Przeworski In other words, the core concept of democracy isn't the elections or any of the other trappings, it's the fact that it's possible for one group to lose power, transition to another group and retain the possibility to transition back in a subsequent election to the original group.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2385 - this details the penalty for attempts to overthrow the government of the USA.

Holy smokes so Trump should get 20 years for organising this? Or is he exempt?

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#505

It's the practical erosion of Free Speech. Liberal (small "l" liberal) democracy and liberal science thrives on members: 1. Being willing to admit they may be wrong 2. Having access to a diverse information diet But the past two decades have shown erosion of not only legal Free Speech, but practical free speech: * Whereas previously they were just ignored (or even rebutted), today employees, students, and professors…

I see things almost completely opposite to you. Twenty years ago we had far less diverse access to information. You would get things from your local newspaper, or tv networks. Professionals would work and filter what we see. Today anyone can fire up a blog, twitter, youtube, and start talking about anything. People today thus have been getting exposed to all kinds of ideas, and being taken in by them: the earth is fl…

We had more diverse access but less diverse consumption.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#506
post #483

It's the practical erosion of Free Speech. Liberal (small "l" liberal) democracy and liberal science thrives on members: 1. Being willing to admit they may be wrong 2. Having access to a diverse information diet But the past two decades have shown erosion of not only legal Free Speech, but practical free speech: * Whereas previously they were just ignored (or even rebutted), today employees, students, and professors…

Corollary to #1: Being willing to understand that two conflicting views on the same topic doesn't mean one of them has to be wrong

And sometimes they are both misleading.

I used to think if I read through media with opposing biases then I'd understand the real story. But in most cases there's just a huge amount of relevant context missing even if the articles are factually correct.

In the same way that you can present statistical data in a way to support a view when the data doesn't actually support it despite being factually accurate.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#507
post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

Education and media consumed

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#508

It's the practical erosion of Free Speech. Liberal (small "l" liberal) democracy and liberal science thrives on members: 1. Being willing to admit they may be wrong 2. Having access to a diverse information diet But the past two decades have shown erosion of not only legal Free Speech, but practical free speech: * Whereas previously they were just ignored (or even rebutted), today employees, students, and professors…

This is absolute nonsense. You are trying your damndest to espouse the HN screed of "Free Speech" but it's got nothing to do with why conservatives have raided the Capitol. Conservatives have raided the capitol for the same they raided Wilmington in 1898, the courthouse in Colfax and why they attacked Ellenton. And that reason is because they feel that white hegemony is under attack, and since democracy can't be used to secure it, it has to go.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilmington_insurrection_of_189...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellenton_riot

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colfax_massacre

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#509
Millions marched for women's rights, millions marched for gay rights, millions marched for voters rights, millions marched for democracy.

Now this desperate man called for protest, and what did he get? Thousands.

It's a tough moment for our nation, but I am reassured. First the people, then the courts, then the states, now congress and the Vice President have all repudiated Trump's dictatorial aspirations.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#510

"Democracy is a system in which parties lose elections" - Przeworski In other words, the core concept of democracy isn't the elections or any of the other trappings, it's the fact that it's possible for one group to lose power, transition to another group and retain the possibility to transition back in a subsequent election to the original group.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2385 - this details the penalty for attempts to overthrow the government of the USA.

Coming from Europe that seems like pretty lax penalties for American standards.
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