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No Cookie for You

github.blog

501–510 of 634 posts

Re: No Cookie for You

#501
post #324

Somehow the rest of the internet was sold to the idea of "EU is forcing you to put cookie banners, these are nothing but annoyance" rhetoric. Whoever pulled that off, bravo! In reality, the idea was to make people aware that they are being tracked across the web and and give them options and somehow everyone pretended that "No tracking, no banners" is not an option. I am so glad that GitHub is coming forward and poin…

I am pretty sure that they are still tracking you - but Microsoft can easily afford to do tracking in-house...

[deleted]

Re: No Cookie for You

#502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the real value in a privacy policy? I assumed they were similar to EULAs - totally unenforceable. Are there actually any legal repercussions if they lie in their privacy policy? Or is it just ill will that might be accrued (and probably quickly forgotten) if they are found out to have violated their own privacy policy?

It sounds like you have misunderstood the purpose of a privacy policy. It is very rare that I encounter one that is designed to protect the user's privacy. Far more often, it's there to protect the company. "I have read and agree to the privacy policy," is a coded way of saying, "I have read and agree to waive my claims to privacy, as outlined in the privacy policy."

>Far more often, it's there to protect the company.

That's pretty much true. And why shouldn't a group try to limit their liability?

>"I have read and agree to the privacy policy," is a coded way of saying, "I have read and agree to waive my claims to privacy, as outlined in the privacy policy."

That's often, but not always true. For example, here's a [sanitized] privacy policy I wrote for a website I set up for a specific (noncommercial) purpose:

"[Site] Privacy Policy

No personal information^ will be stored on the https://www.[site] web server (except as specifically authorized), and every effort will be made to protect the integrity and privacy of such information.

[Site], its management or assignees will never sell personal information collected on this site, nor will they use such information for purposes other than specifically related to the operation of the [Site] website and/or to facilitate the dissemination of information regarding [purpose of site] and other group activities related to [potential users] and other [user purpose] related group activities.

Under no circumstances will street address or telephone number information be stored on the www.[site] by [Site], its management or assignees.

[Site], its management and assignees will never, under any circumstances reveal email addresses, street addresses and/or telephone numbers to anyone without explicit authorization. From time to time, [site] may offer services to allow [potential users] to contact each other. For these services, [Site], its management and assignees makes no warrantee of fitness for any purpose, including maintaining the privacy of users' personal information.

All personal information will be held in confidence and will only used for the purposes of the [potential users] [purpose of site] and official [membership organization] business.

This business includes (but is not limited to) providing personal information for inclusion (by the [membership organization]) in a printed work to be published at a later date. If this published work is then used for illegal and/or nuisance purposes, [Site], its management and assignees disavow any responsibility or liability for the use of that information by third parties for any purpose.

If a subscriber (limited to members of the [potential users]) chooses to share their personal information with other subscribers via any mechanism made available through the [Site] web site, mailing list or other conveyance provided by [Site], its management and assignees disavow any responsibility or liability for the use of that information by third parties for any purpose.

Under no circumstances will [Site], its management or assignees be liable or otherwise legally responsible for the theft, misuse or other unauthorized use of personal information.

Any person or entity registering on, providing contact information, or subscribing to the [Site] web site explicitly agrees to all the terms of this privacy policy.

This policy applies to the www.[Site] web site and the [Purpose of site]@[Site] mailing list.

If any portion of this policy is found, by any competent jurisdiction, to be invalid or unlawful, the remainder of this policy will continue to be in force.

The terms of this policy may be modified at any time at the discretion of [Site]. It is the responsibility of the subscriber to review the terms of this policy on a regular basis. Current versions of this policy can be found at https://www.[site]/privacy.html.

^Personal Information: Data such as street address, email address and telephone number which would enable direct contact with the subject of that information."

It does two specific things:

1. Informs users how their PII will (and will not) be used;

2. Clarifies the liability of those who own/run the site.

Unlike most "privacy" policies, there's nothing underhanded or privacy invading/data stealing involved.

I wish more privacy policies were like that.

Re: No Cookie for You

#503
post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends on what personal data they're collecting and for what purpose, in the case that a person hasn't explicitly opted-in by giving consent freely. I don't think it's possible for us to figure those details out exhaustively merely by observation from the outside.

Yes, and it's not like the EU is going to send surprise inspections to go dig into Microsoft's code and databases to check whether they are violating this or not?

They don't send surprise inspections to your house to check if you're engaging in criminal activity, either.

My point is that you're moving the goalposts. Law enforcement generally always requires a complaint that justifies an investigation, and people and organisations get away with breaking the law all the time. However that has nothing to do with whether or not GitHub put their website behind a "consent" wall, or whether or not they're doing in-house as opposed to contracted-out analytics.

Re: No Cookie for You

#504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GitHub still sends the same personal data to their own analytics endpoint, and the privacy policy which lists third-party data subprocessors [1] has not been updated. See my comment below for details: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25458635 Tracking cookies have little value for GitHub when they can collect data about users that have already been authenticated, and they send the username and user ID as part of…

A GitHub spokesperson has issued this statement [1] about a request to api.github.com: "That endpoint tracks aggregate performance metrics, and does not rely on cookies or other unique identifiers". GitHub is still sending our usernames and other unique IDs, our device data, and the pages we visit to the collector.githubapp.com endpoint. GitHub's claims about not tracking users are false, they do identify users in tr…

this isn't about tracking users, it's about cookies. no cookies doesn't mean no tracking. it's just a workaround to improve UX. "visiting our website does not send any information to third-party analytics services" - but presumably third parties are still able to access this data on request. their privacy policy probably reflects this. if you visit a website and don't want to be tracked, make it as hard as possible for the host to do so, don't rely on what the host says. they can do anything they like with visitors' data. anyone who hosts websites will confirm this

Re: No Cookie for You

#505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A GitHub spokesperson has issued this statement [1] about a request to api.github.com: "That endpoint tracks aggregate performance metrics, and does not rely on cookies or other unique identifiers". GitHub is still sending our usernames and other unique IDs, our device data, and the pages we visit to the collector.githubapp.com endpoint. GitHub's claims about not tracking users are false, they do identify users in tr…

this isn't about tracking users, it's about cookies. no cookies doesn't mean no tracking. it's just a workaround to improve UX. "visiting our website does not send any information to third-party analytics services" - but presumably third parties are still able to access this data on request. their privacy policy probably reflects this. if you visit a website and don't want to be tracked, make it as hard as possible f…

Yes, they can do anything with the user's data, if the user has consented, or if they are willing to break the law.

The tracking request you see above requires informed consent under GDPR, and GitHub does not ask for consent before collecting browsing and device data that is tied to GitHub usernames.

Re: No Cookie for You

#507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this isn't about tracking users, it's about cookies. no cookies doesn't mean no tracking. it's just a workaround to improve UX. "visiting our website does not send any information to third-party analytics services" - but presumably third parties are still able to access this data on request. their privacy policy probably reflects this. if you visit a website and don't want to be tracked, make it as hard as possible f…

Yes, they can do anything with the user's data, if the user has consented, or if they are willing to break the law. The tracking request you see above requires informed consent under GDPR, and GitHub does not ask for consent before collecting browsing and device data that is tied to GitHub usernames.

consent is simple to gain, who reads the entire ToS and privacy policy?

the law is simple to break and appear as if you're not. they're a big company and will have this covered if needed

the bottom line is, do you place more trust in your local lawmakers and the website you are visiting than you do in yourself

Re: No Cookie for You

#508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GitHub still sends the same personal data to their own analytics endpoint, and the privacy policy which lists third-party data subprocessors [1] has not been updated. See my comment below for details: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25458635 Tracking cookies have little value for GitHub when they can collect data about users that have already been authenticated, and they send the username and user ID as part of…

What is the real value in a privacy policy? I assumed they were similar to EULAs - totally unenforceable. Are there actually any legal repercussions if they lie in their privacy policy? Or is it just ill will that might be accrued (and probably quickly forgotten) if they are found out to have violated their own privacy policy?

Violation of privacy policies alone does not give rise to a cause of action. However such violations could be useful as evidence in the context of suing on some other basis. Of course, there is no satisfactory basis to sue tech companies for violations of privacy. That is why privacy is being decimated by tech companies. There are no adequate laws to protect it. Privacy policies seem to be an effective way to placate the public. Users seem to take tech companies on their word.

Re: No Cookie for You

#509
I think the Snowden leaks have showed that privacy is dead and has been for sometime. I’m not sure why you all seem to care? The only choice is do you want the government to have a monopoly over data or have private corporations profit while providing services. Genuinely curious why people are against anonymized tracking.

Re: No Cookie for You

#510

This is fantastic. Thank you, GitHub. I hope this is a good demonstration of a hands-off approach at Microsoft in regard to company culture. I realize you likely still collect some analytics for yourself and that this change does nothing to alleviate that. EG, first party javascript. But it's great that it's divorced from 3rd parties. Presumably Microsoft has access to those metrics, though? I wonder how deeply that…

I think I mentioned in a previous thread that CompatTelRunner/Appraiser is so bad that even MS employees like Billy O"Neal complain about it because of the CPU and HDD/SSD time it consumes.
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