Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

blog.youtube

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

501–510 of 1001 posts

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#501

Post by nyczomg »

feoren wrote: post #466
macspoofing wrote: post #4

For God's sakes ... What underpins this need for social media companies to virtue signal about protecting 'election integrity' is the false notion that 2016 was stolen from Hillary by the Russians - a claim that had no evidential support (and no, that some trolls bought a minuscule amount of Facebook ads does not raise this claim to that level) but the entire Democratic party, with media allies, promulgated for the l…

It's weird to me that we still have people that still cling to the idea that censorship and curation of content is always evil and every site on the Internet should allow completely unmoderated speech, when we've seen over and over and over that such sites always devolve into festering echo-chambers of hatred and racism. Always. Every time. Not only are you conveniently ignoring that reality, but you're also ignoring…

"It's weird to me that we still have people that still cling to the idea that censorship and curation of content is always evil and every site on the Internet should allow completely unmoderated speech, when we've seen over and over and over that such sites always devolve into festering echo-chambers of hatred and racism. Always. Every time."

I'd find your comment much more interesting if you actually argued against the OP's point rather than this strawman.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#502

Post by helen___keller »

sxyuan wrote: post #303

A lot of short, knee-jerk reactions on this thread, not to mention snark and downright flame. Seeing as this is at the top of HN right now, can we try to elevate the level of discourse a little bit? A few questions to consider: 1. Is content moderation necessary in online platforms? I think the answer to this question is self-evident, but others may disagree and so I think it's worth posing. FWIW, HN has moderation,…

Just to emphasize something thats generally unstated but I think pretty important: the only reason this is even remotely newsworthy or controversial is due to how large and influential Youtube is.

If I could choose between two worlds, in the first there is a single mega-platform that is moderated ultra-fairly so all people can use it, and in the second there is no megaplatform but a lot of small platforms that each moderate with nakedly partisan editorial lean, I would much prefer the latter. It would be more free both for publishers and consumers, in my opinion.

Right now we are all stuck trying to act like megaplatforms can house everyone fairly. They can't. Current events prove it. Facebook tried, Reddit tried, Twitter tried, and Youtube tried, and all ended up taking editorial stances that are often construed as partisan.

If we had a competitive landscape of smaller platforms, everyone could have a platform that works for them, with editorial decisions that work for them. This could all be decided by the free market instead of everyone collectively wringing their hands about freedom when a tech giant makes a stand on misinformation.

I don't know how society can deal with the tech giant's moats, but I think that's the real demon to slay.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#503

Post by GordonS »

99_00 wrote: post #417
GordonS wrote: post #400

I don't like what YouTube is doing. But... What is going on in the US just now is unprecedented in modern Western democracies - we've reached "peak fake news" in the USA. Mainstream news networks like Fox have talking heads spouting venomous lies that are demonstrably and trivially proven as such. The POTUS is lying on an hourly basis (many of those lies just brazenly , ridiculously false), and has millions of people…

>we've reached "peak fake news" in the USA. Mainstream news networks like Fox have talking heads spouting venomous lies that are demonstrably and trivially proven as such I think that mainstream news has been doing this for the past 4 years. Here are 3 examples: 1) Trump Russia collusion hoax. 2) Trump saying that neo-nazis and white supremacists are "fine people" hoax. 3) Trump recommending people "inject bleach" ho…

> Trump saying that neo-nazis and white supremacists are "fine people" hoax.

I have personally watched a press conference where Trump said that live on TV in front of millions of people. I don't understand how you can call this a "hoax" when it came from the mouth of the POTUS himself.

> Trump recommending people "inject bleach" hoax

I have personally watched a press conferences where Trump embarked on an embarrassing, demented, rambling adlib where he has suggested injecting bleach. I watch some of these, and I genuinely have to wonder about both his mental capacity and his mental faculties.

TBH, your comment is demonstrating the problem facing the US just now - you are asserting that easily demonstrable facts are a "hoax", even when they have been broadcast by Trump himself to millions of people.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#504

Post by yters »

I have looked into a couple datasets purporting evidence of fraud, but they are fallacious. This is much more effective at disabusing me of election fraud conspiracies than censorship. YouTube's latest move has raised my skepticism all over again.

Furthermore, YouTube must know this so there must be some really damning material they are censoring to make this risky move, which ultimately leads me to conclude there is widespread fraud.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#505

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

lalaland1125 wrote: post #492
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #386

Unpopular opinion: it is much better to have a leader hated by the media and who's every move is scrutinized by the press than to have a leader cowtowed by the press and given a free pass on anything. How do I know? I'm from Russia. Authoritatism begins with tight control of news sources.

This comment is really weird. There is a good reason why the media publishes more negative articles about some presidents and fewer on others; some presidents are legitimately better or worse than others.

By this metric, Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong Un are greatest leaders the world has ever seen.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#506

Post by dillondoyle »

macspoofing wrote: post #4

For God's sakes ... What underpins this need for social media companies to virtue signal about protecting 'election integrity' is the false notion that 2016 was stolen from Hillary by the Russians - a claim that had no evidential support (and no, that some trolls bought a minuscule amount of Facebook ads does not raise this claim to that level) but the entire Democratic party, with media allies, promulgated for the l…

Can you show that a significant % of the public/swing voters or sitting out 'Dems' swayed by Russia?

Most Democratic political workers would tell you that Comey and the emails is the #1 factor. It amplified built in brand of Clinton corruption and Comey broke long standing policy at basically the perfect time to do perfect damage.

Sure some of this was amplified by Russia but I don't know a single professional that would say Russia had a larger impact than the emails/Comey.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#507

Post by dillondoyle »

3princip wrote: post #441

I live in a country that the US has sanctioned in the past for undemocratic election processes. Also, I'm familiar with our voting procedures and have worked on election oversight, data gathering etc. If we had an election that had a fraction of the irregularities that are surfacing in some of these problematic states, I'm pretty sure we would have been invaded by now. Jokes aside, those states are a similar populati…

?? show actual factual sources if you're going to make a claim like that on a platform like HN

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#508

Post by swalsh »

feoren wrote: post #466
macspoofing wrote: post #4

For God's sakes ... What underpins this need for social media companies to virtue signal about protecting 'election integrity' is the false notion that 2016 was stolen from Hillary by the Russians - a claim that had no evidential support (and no, that some trolls bought a minuscule amount of Facebook ads does not raise this claim to that level) but the entire Democratic party, with media allies, promulgated for the l…

It's weird to me that we still have people that still cling to the idea that censorship and curation of content is always evil and every site on the Internet should allow completely unmoderated speech, when we've seen over and over and over that such sites always devolve into festering echo-chambers of hatred and racism. Always. Every time. Not only are you conveniently ignoring that reality, but you're also ignoring…

"False information is much more powerful than true information"

So apparently you believe individuals aren't capable of responsibly enjoying freedom, and thus should concede automomy of thought to the elite for what information they can consume or spread?

Some people can't handle their alchohol, but prohibiting the sale of alcohol didn't solve the probelm. Some individuals have problems, so the way to deal with that is at the individual level. Sorry the solution doesn't scale well. Freedom is great, but it's kind of expensive.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#509

Post by kiawe_fire »

In a free and fair society, it is not dangerous to ask questions. It is very dangerous to be told that you are not allowed to ask questions.

In a marketplace of ideas, with free sharing of information, bogus claims will eventually (usually quickly) collapse on themselves, and true claims will bear themselves out.

Attempting to silence ideas, even potentially false and harmful ideas, is the greatest way to build a society that is not free, fair, and based on fact, but only one that is based on the opinions of the gatekeepers of the ideas.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#510

Post by dkobran »

cambalache wrote: post #421
GordonS wrote: post #400

I don't like what YouTube is doing. But... What is going on in the US just now is unprecedented in modern Western democracies - we've reached "peak fake news" in the USA. Mainstream news networks like Fox have talking heads spouting venomous lies that are demonstrably and trivially proven as such. The POTUS is lying on an hourly basis (many of those lies just brazenly , ridiculously false), and has millions of people…

> But... There is no "buts" regarding freedom. I dont know if you have any experience with authoritarian measures but none of them starts like "This is a bad and permanent measure for no reason"... all of them are "exceptional", "to ensure public safety" ,"only valid as long as extraordinary circumstances are present"..all of them. The democrats were claiming fraud 4 years go due to a supposed Russian influence.The e…

This dogmatic/fundamentalist interpretation of freedom doesn’t make you objective, it makes you an ideologue. There are well-known and widely accepted exceptions to freedom such as curbs on freedom of speech e.g. not yelling “fire” in a crowded space and inciting violence. There are trade-offs between freedom and curbs on freedoms (policies) that benefit the greater good of society. This is the so-called “social contract” between individuals and those that govern them. I highly recommend reading about this (e.g. even Wikipedia has a great explanation) and I don’t mean that as a condescending remark, I think it’s a fascinating topic. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract

Edit: link

Post reply on HN