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Beta users of Starlink get downloads of 11 to 60 Mbps

arstechnica.com

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Re: Beta users of Starlink get downloads of 11 to 60 Mbps

#501

Post by Dylan16807 »

shaklee3 wrote: post #493
Dylan16807 wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which statements of his am I arguing against? Also if buffers are configured to be very small then congestion does not have to add more than a fraction of a millisecond of latency. Bufferbloat is endemic but it is not unavoidable.

https://www.shacknews.com/article/118663/spacex-starlink-20m... He said 20ms, and you are saying it'll be higher, and that's okay. You can't just shrink buffers to get rid of queuing latency. You introduce new problems with scheduling when doing so.

I'm not saying it will be higher.

This first generation of satellites doesn't even have inter-satellite lasers. So those extra hops will never be an issue. It's a moot point. The 20ms number is about the first generation.

But some day, when those links exist, if data goes halfway around the world via satellite, it would be stupid to say "gotcha! longer than 20ms!". That's a complete misunderstanding of the context, and complaining about something that makes the data go faster.

If someone was going to use multi-hop results to 'disprove' 20ms, they don't even need data. Just look at the speed of light. Bam, already disproven! But that's because it's not what the 20ms number was talking about. He wasn't promising to violate causality.

Re: Beta users of Starlink get downloads of 11 to 60 Mbps

#503

Post by shaklee3 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #501
shaklee3 wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.shacknews.com/article/118663/spacex-starlink-20m... He said 20ms, and you are saying it'll be higher, and that's okay. You can't just shrink buffers to get rid of queuing latency. You introduce new problems with scheduling when doing so.

I'm not saying it will be higher. This first generation of satellites doesn't even have inter-satellite lasers. So those extra hops will never be an issue. It's a moot point. The 20ms number is about the first generation. But some day, when those links exist, if data goes halfway around the world via satellite, it would be stupid to say "gotcha! longer than 20ms!". That's a complete misunderstanding of the context, a…

Nobody has ever claimed 20ms to go around the world, because that's physically impossible. He did claim ping times would be 20ms, which is patently false, even within CONUS. There is no "second generation" to date. They have not been launched or tested. So the more of v1 that are out, the less v2 you can launch without deorbiting a very expensive part of the fleet.

Re: Beta users of Starlink get downloads of 11 to 60 Mbps

#504

Post by IntelMiner »

myself248 wrote: post #440
war1025 wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember as a teen I'd go on Digg and open all the articles in separate tabs so that by the time I was done reading the text ones some of the images would be loaded on the ones with pictures. We've come a long way.

Oh, you had tabs! We had to use new browser instances! Uphill, in the snow! Seriously though, I still do this out of habit, as it's just how I like to read. Skim a front page, open all the articles in tabs, and then go back and peruse them.

I remember when Internet Explorer 7 released with tab support. I'd been using Firefox since 1.0 (something like 5 years at that point?)

He whisked me over to his laptop and started opening tabs, before looking at me like he was the first man to discover fire

When I responded "oh, I've had that for years" he looked genuinely shattered at my reaction

Re: Beta users of Starlink get downloads of 11 to 60 Mbps

#505

Post by Dylan16807 »

shaklee3 wrote: post #503
Dylan16807 wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying it will be higher. This first generation of satellites doesn't even have inter-satellite lasers. So those extra hops will never be an issue. It's a moot point. The 20ms number is about the first generation. But some day, when those links exist, if data goes halfway around the world via satellite, it would be stupid to say "gotcha! longer than 20ms!". That's a complete misunderstanding of the context, a…

Nobody has ever claimed 20ms to go around the world, because that's physically impossible. He did claim ping times would be 20ms, which is patently false, even within CONUS. There is no "second generation" to date. They have not been launched or tested. So the more of v1 that are out, the less v2 you can launch without deorbiting a very expensive part of the fleet.

It's not patently false! Some of the testers got 20ms already AND this is a beta.

Re: Beta users of Starlink get downloads of 11 to 60 Mbps

#506

Post by LarryMade2 »

shaklee3 wrote: post #494
LarryMade2 wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Satellite usually gets several hundred to nearly 1000 ms of latency, so being under 100 is a big deal. Satellite latency is so bad most people with smart TVs can't stream to them because most streaming buffers empty faster than the network responds with more packets. They are usually stuck with their computers to pre-download content or increase buffer size/decrease video resolution.

I didn't say the latency was as high as GEO. If a car commercial said a car was $20k, and you got to the dealership and it was $60k, would you just throw your hands up and say it's still pretty good? The point is that the publicity was based on completely fake promises.

When you live in mountainous areas you usually have three options.

Dial-up - if its offered still in your area,

Point to point internet - if you have neighbours in line of sight also participating.

or Satellite - if you are in line of sight to the satellite

Many people I know up-country usually all they get is satellite, so yeah starlink may not the promised 20ms, but its hella lot better than what traditional satellite is providing (also hopeful starlink provides better reliability and tech support which in satellite is quite atrocious as well)

Heh - as far as what's promised vs delivery, read the fine print on satellite internet plans, they have wording saying the hope is to provide the advertised speeds but there is no guarantee that they ever will.

Re: Beta users of Starlink get downloads of 11 to 60 Mbps

#507

Post by shaklee3 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #505
shaklee3 wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody has ever claimed 20ms to go around the world, because that's physically impossible. He did claim ping times would be 20ms, which is patently false, even within CONUS. There is no "second generation" to date. They have not been launched or tested. So the more of v1 that are out, the less v2 you can launch without deorbiting a very expensive part of the fleet.

It's not patently false! Some of the testers got 20ms already AND this is a beta.

Let's revisit this. There's no point in arguing, but a single data point during a beta is clearly not what he was referring to.

Re: Beta users of Starlink get downloads of 11 to 60 Mbps

#508

Post by shaklee3 »

LarryMade2 wrote: post #506
shaklee3 wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say the latency was as high as GEO. If a car commercial said a car was $20k, and you got to the dealership and it was $60k, would you just throw your hands up and say it's still pretty good? The point is that the publicity was based on completely fake promises.

When you live in mountainous areas you usually have three options. Dial-up - if its offered still in your area, Point to point internet - if you have neighbours in line of sight also participating. or Satellite - if you are in line of sight to the satellite Many people I know up-country usually all they get is satellite, so yeah starlink may not the promised 20ms, but its hella lot better than what traditional satell…

Everything you just said applies to starlink as well. Why the double standard? Still need line of sight, they still won't provide advertised speed guarantees ( no ISP does).

And most people don't care about latency. Bandwidth is far more important.

Re: Beta users of Starlink get downloads of 11 to 60 Mbps

#509

Post by Dylan16807 »

shaklee3 wrote: post #507
Dylan16807 wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not patently false! Some of the testers got 20ms already AND this is a beta.

Let's revisit this. There's no point in arguing, but a single data point during a beta is clearly not what he was referring to.

Sure, we can revisit this later.

But if we need to look at the numbers later, doesn't that mean you're conceding the point about it being "clearly not going to happen" and "patently false" that it will ever reach the promised number?

Or do you think I'm delusional to say "maybe it will, maybe it won't" and you're just humoring me by offering to revisit?

Re: Beta users of Starlink get downloads of 11 to 60 Mbps

#510

Post by shaklee3 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #509
shaklee3 wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's revisit this. There's no point in arguing, but a single data point during a beta is clearly not what he was referring to.

Sure, we can revisit this later. But if we need to look at the numbers later, doesn't that mean you're conceding the point about it being "clearly not going to happen" and "patently false" that it will ever reach the promised number? Or do you think I'm delusional to say "maybe it will, maybe it won't" and you're just humoring me by offering to revisit?

I'm maintaining these are best case numbers and that they'll go up when the service is live. I would bet you'll never see 20ms when paying customers are on it.
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