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For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

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Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#501

Post by RonanTheGrey »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #456
chongli wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the trouble here is the double meaning of the word racist. When some people hear the word, they think of cross-burning fanatics and mass murderers. On the other hand, the current big conversation is about how everyone is racist and that society is rife with systemic racism. That creates a catch-22 for anyone who commits a faux-pas (like mistaking the black CEO for a subordinate). Either admit to racism and ca…

Somehow you proposed a "double meaning" of racism and missed the actual meaning that's being addressed by our society. Racism isn't about personal prejudice, although it's certainly a participation trophy for them. Racism is not about who is burning crosses, or about who is born into privilege. Racism is a system , a set of rules, rites, privileges and laws that puts 100% of POC at a disadvantage, and 100% of white p…

> Racism isn't about personal prejudice, although it's certainly a participation trophy for them. Racism is not about who is burning crosses, or about who is born into privilege. Racism is a system, a set of rules, rites, privileges and laws that puts 100% of POC at a disadvantage, and 100% of white people at an advantage, regardless of the rest of their social status.

Nope. Alot of people keep attempting to change a definition that is older than any of us alive, and nope. You have to make up a new word. I don't mind "Institutional racism" or "systemic racism" so much, because they're more descriptive expressions, and lead to useful discussion, but to infantilize whole groups of people by making them incapable of a part of the human experience (to be personally racist towards people whose skin is a different color than theirs) is simply absurd.

You can identify the problem without making your language a personal attack on every individual. And attempting to accuse every individual, DOESN'T solve the problem does it? It doesn't unmake the laws. It doesn't unbuild the institutions. It doesn't drive people to talk about how laws unfairly target blacks, like the "war on drugs". But it most certainly makes enemies. It's a useless and impractical approach.

There is NO statement you can make that is true of all humans, nor even any particular "group" of humans, for whatever that means, because NO "group" of humans is remotely meaningfully homogeneous. Except for very broad strokes like "humans must breathe to live", no universal statements are true.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#502

Post by malandrew »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #386
js2 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am Jewish. This gives me no insight into what it is to be black in America. But it does give me some insight into what it is to be a minority in America. I have an inkling of your loneliness and you have my profound sympathy. I wish everyone could experience what it is to be a minority in some, any, aspect of their identity to the extent that it might provide them some empathy for others. (I also never realized wha…

> I wish everyone could experience what it is to be a minority in some, any, aspect of their identity to the extent that it might provide them some empathy for others. You would be surprised at how pervasive and long-lasting majority privilege can be. I live in Southeast Asia where foreigners are a very distinct minority and they experience all kinds of hardships. Difficulties making (local) friends, difficulties dea…

It’s weird judging him condescendingly by saying he’s oblivious when at the end of the day, he’s happy.

Maybe it’s his happiness in the situation that leads him not to ponder it like you do. He’s not missing anything that makes his life richer.

I’ve been in both the majority and minority many times in my life and I like you have pondered it, but I also have the capacity to observe myself from the third person in a cold clinical way so I’m neither oblivious nor unhappy.

Given four choices: aware and content, unaware and content, aware and uncontent and unaware and uncontent, I would never choose the last two, awareness isn’t worth it for contentment.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#503

Post by greenhatglack »

Ar-Curunir wrote: post #461
greenhatglack wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of money to be made in "anti-racism" and "gender-science", especially in tax-heavy countries. No one ever dares to question it, and it's "good" causes that could use some of the workers income. I'll be contrarian and recommend Thomas Sowell's "Black Rednecks and White Liberals" instead.

lol are you kidding me? If "anti-racism" was actually accepted, then we would have much less racism. If gender-science were actually accepted, then we would have less discrimination against trans folks.

First of, what is ascribed of homophobia and racism today is a moving goal post.

When transgendered Vietnamese Jane Doe got assaulted and robbed, racism and homophobia was at play

But not when it happened to Andy Ngo.

Certain animals are better than others and thus get to set the feeding time tables, ya?

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#504

Post by lawn »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #482
darth_avocado wrote: post #187

For everyone arguing "honest mistake" or "just chance", think about the person at the receiving end. For the person making that mistake, it could be their first, but for the person at the receiving end it could be the hundredth, and that too, not without consequences. The first 3-4 times I got "randomly selected" for additional screening at the airport, I was like whatever. But years later after my probably 100th "ra…

>It is humiliating This is a common theme in a number of stories in this thread that I don't understand. How and why does being a victim of racism translate into shame? When I am subject to injustice, my emotional reaction has always been fury and frustration.

I imagine the feeling of humiliation is a normal human reaction, no matter if the cause is racism, domestic abuse, rape or what have you. The first few times it happens you might get angry, but when it's the 100th time you'll instead feel tired, sad and humiliated.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#505

Post by malandrew »

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #57
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #21

I thought this was a great article. One of the most interesting things to me was how the embarrassment/defensiveness of the white people involved was one of the biggest blocks to the black CEOs in their advancement, e.g. the VCs who "just wanted to get the hell out of there" after mistaking a white subordinate for the CEO. I've recently been reading/watching some videos and writings by Robin Diangelo on systemic raci…

I'm skeptical about Robin Diangelo, I read her book a few months ago, and it only seems to be an advertisement for her services as an anti-racist instructor. Her entire argument frames race relations within the context of the workplace which is problematic because her approach is coercive, not educational. It's more a guide on "how not to get fired for being racist" than anything. There are much better books for foun…

You should be skeptical. Here’s an excellent piece from John McWhorter delving into why:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/antiracism-our-flawed-new-reli...

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#506

Post by greenhatglack »

solveit wrote: post #370
r0s wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, there's not a lot of money to be made, and people constantly question it. Would-be spoilers get educated about their own unrealized bias, racism continues to be a huge problem in this country, activists are vindicated and the world moves on.

Can someone get me an actual number so I know what to think?

Keep in mind when people give you examples of industry numbers like games and movies when they compare it to something funded by workers income tax.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#507

Post by TrackerFF »

ahominid wrote: post #138

Is it possible that when put in unfamiliar situations, people will by default direct themselves toward others who are most like themselves? A hypothetical: Reverse all the races in the VC/CEO situation. Who would the black VC assume was the CEO? Repeat the experiment with whichever combination of race/sex you like.

People base their beliefs on prior probabilities, before any new evidence is provided.

If all you've ever seen are white CEOs, then it's probably very reasonable to assume that the white guy in a meeting also is the CEO.

It's not racist, but just how your brain works on the priors.

I know that people should strive to not be assuming, but in the end, the brain is an exceptional pattern recognizer, and very much works in subconscious ways.

edit: And before anyone starts claiming racism; I'm just saying that this is how humans work. You collect data all the time, and (hopefully) update your beliefs on said new evidence.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#508

Post by seppin »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #386
js2 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am Jewish. This gives me no insight into what it is to be black in America. But it does give me some insight into what it is to be a minority in America. I have an inkling of your loneliness and you have my profound sympathy. I wish everyone could experience what it is to be a minority in some, any, aspect of their identity to the extent that it might provide them some empathy for others. (I also never realized wha…

> I wish everyone could experience what it is to be a minority in some, any, aspect of their identity to the extent that it might provide them some empathy for others. You would be surprised at how pervasive and long-lasting majority privilege can be. I live in Southeast Asia where foreigners are a very distinct minority and they experience all kinds of hardships. Difficulties making (local) friends, difficulties dea…

I don't think your German friend sees his current living situation as anything other than temporary.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#509

Post by tropdrop »

greenhatglack wrote: post #495
jakelazaroff wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one ever dares to question it, and it's "good" causes that could use some of the workers income. Questioning those things is basically mainstream conservative discourse. You’re questioning them right now .

Right, the last guy to do that, got fired from Google.

Damore worked at Google, i.e. in the Bay Area. The Bay Area has a certain political bent (left), and running counter to it has real consequences.

But other places in the country have a different political bent (right). Chick-fil-A's anti-LGBT stance actually increased its sales (for a time, anyway). [1]

You can see this effect play out similarly when Trump says something that rankles the Twitters of Silicon Valley and New York, but which gets him even bigger approval ratings in the red states. All this to say - your points might feel like activism in the Bay Area, but that doesn't make the above poster's claim that it's mainstream conservative discourse false.

1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick-fil-A_and_LGBT_people

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#510

Post by seppin »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #487
freddie_mercury wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish everyone could experience what it is to be a minority in some, any, aspect of their identity to the extent that it might provide them some empathy for others. You would be surprised at how pervasive and long-lasting majority privilege can be. I live in Southeast Asia where foreigners are a very distinct minority and they experience all kinds of hardships. Difficulties making (local) friends, difficulties dea…

This is - sadly - the norm for many British retirees who move to Southern France, Spain, or Portugal and then complain bitterly that the stupid backward locals can't speak English properly.

Living in a place obligates you to at least try and fit in. Working in a place for 1-2 years, I fully understand why people don't bother.
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