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Making Emacs Popular Again

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Re: Making Emacs Popular Again

#501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In order to be more productive of 10s of thousands of hours one only needs to be slightly more productive to justify spending a handful of hours. 1% per 10k hours is worth 100 hours.

Yeah, to some extent, maybe. I appreciate what you’re saying, and I do hate being slowed down in the moment. I’ve got a handcrafted AutoHotKey script and a 22 button gaming mouse fine tuned for 2D CAD / CAM software at work, so while I am definitely in to this sort of customisation... If I’m honest with myself I don’t really get more work done because I end up using the time being unproductive elsewhere. There’s defi…

> a certain intellectual curiosity-satisfaction

User interface design (UID) and user experience (UX) are interesting topics.

Have you ever conducted an oil change at your car or some other minor mechanical task? Wasn't it fun for a moment (at least that one time)?

Machines are interesting.

Re: Making Emacs Popular Again

#502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meta is not always Alt. Some people use ESC for the Meta keybindings.

So? Alt is not always Alt either, and apparently for a lot of people Ctrl is actually Caps Lock (to help with RSI?).

I think you misunderstood. Control, alt, meta, hyper, and super are (at least on my current OS) distinct modifiers. There are also keys bearing some of those names on most keyboards which makes things confusing to talk about.

Each modifier can be mapped to any physical key. For example, I'm one of those control as caps lock people you mentioned. I then have hyper on the left control key, alt and meta (yes both) on the left alt key, level 3 on the right alt key, and compose on the right control key.

Re: Making Emacs Popular Again

#503
post #470
post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If my emacs is a slow start, it is because I have a lot of previously opened files that it reads at startup. Otherwise, it is as quick as anything.

Interesting. How did you get it to store the list of previously opened files?

In the Emacs manual, read the "Saving Emacs Sessions" chapter (or get there from the 'desktop-save-mode' function documentation). Emacs can save and restore your current session, with opened files and windows layout, and as usual it's highly configurable.

By default it uses a global session context, but for example I configure mine to save the session locally in the directory where emacs is started. Then I can have several projects in parallel, and when I start emacs in the project top level directory it restores the session for this specific project. I also make the session saving file name machine specific, and ignored by unison for file synchronization. So the layout is specific for each machines with possible different screen setup leading to different window organizations. Just an example, you can tune it to fit your own needs --- that's the whole point of Emacs to me.

Re: Making Emacs Popular Again

#504
post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What gui elements do you find lacking I'm not familiar with ZWEI

Basically think of using Emacs like a Jupyter Netbook, including the visualizations. Back when I was still into Emacs (2004) this wasn't possible.

That's possible now, you can render images inside buffers.

Re: Making Emacs Popular Again

#505
I've had Emacs open in my screen while I'm working for twenty mutter mutter years, and my keybindings have diverged enough where I can't use stock Emacs without stopping and carefully thinking about what I'm doing.

But that's sunk cost. I discourage young programmers from diving into it, for a couple of reasons. First, early in their career there are places where they will get a lot more leverage. Spend some time learning your text editor, sure, but at the five to ten hour mark that rabbit hole starts yielding swiftly diminishing returns. And second, everyone talks about shaping it to your workflow, but, in the end, Emacs is a terrible environment for writing UIs. Not everything is best interacted with as text in a terminal. In fact, most data is not. Compare org-mode with the best of breed todo apps like OmniFocus and Tasks. I use org-mode for my technical diary, and I use OmniFocus for my tasks. OmniFocus is simply better. GUIs with a mouse are a more efficient way to navigate most tasks on a computer that aren't programming.

Stallman mentioned preparing text for publishing. I'm probably unusual in that I have both typeset professionally (back in Quark XPress days) and gone really deep in to LaTeX (in my physics days). I've written and typeset two books. The technical text I did in LaTeX. Actually, I wrote the text in a mix of Scrivener and LyX, and then used Emacs for the final document. For what lies nicely in LaTeX, that's great. The other one I did in Adobe InDesign, and doing it in LaTeX in a text editor instead sounds like masochism. If you're willing to accept what LaTeX gives you, it's fabulous. If not, typesetting with Emacs and LaTeX is a simply inferior experience to using a proper typesetting program.

Re: Making Emacs Popular Again

#506

New employee 1 workflow at company X: 1. Install VS Code 2. Click extensions and install language specific plugin 3. Work New employee 2 workflow at company X: 1. Install emacs 2. Try to install some source code indexing tool 3. Tool is missing 13 dependencies, so spend 4 hours finding, installing and configuring the dependencies. 4. Spend another couple hours reading non-existent to terrible documentation (documenta…

Or even better New employee workflow at company Z 1. Install the Jetbtains toolbox 2. Have IDEs for several languages with consistent features and semantics. 3. Minimal to no configuration needed 4. Profit.

I can use 40% more cores when compiling than my CLion using colleagues because vim doesn't need 10GB of RAM. I tried using CLion, but it was just too slow. Maybe I was holding it wrong.

Re: Making Emacs Popular Again

#507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would expect an experienced emacs user to have a config already that more or less "works". Was this a junior developer that just decided to start using emacs one day? I'm not an emacs person myself, but every emacs person I have ever met already has it setup and customized and just brings their config. A new dev starting with emacs on a new job... just sounds like a bad recipe and misunderstood priorities.

While I think you're right on the whole here about "Emacs people," but you did an interesting thing in the first sentence: you contrasted experienced Emacs user with junior developer. And I think that actually points to a problem: people who are experienced developers but not experienced Emacs users are going to be in much the same position as the OP's description. While I know the basics of Emacs, every time I try t…

> As for me, well, when Spacemacs moves the LSP layer to its non-development branch, I'll probably give it a try again

You're doing yourself a discervice for not just using Spacemacs develop branch. It's actually more stable than the master branch.

Re: Making Emacs Popular Again

#508
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can imagine a few ways emacs could be improved, but "a new direction for it," I can't.

And that's why it'll slowly go extinct.

emacs is Lindy. VS Code will go extinct before Emacs.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_Effect)

Re: Making Emacs Popular Again

#509
Please. Emacs will never be popular. Emacs does not need to be popular. Making it popular will require dumbing it down to the level of VS Code. It's doing just fine as it is, please leave it alone.

Edit: I mean, it's a complex, sophisticated, hard-to-master instrument, kind of like Organ. If you feel that popularity of your instrument matters above all (which is perfectly fine) -- just get yourself a Kazoo.

Re: Making Emacs Popular Again

#510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, or you could use "emacs -Q," but all of those performance improvements are off by default, and it seems like they always will be. As long as that's true Vim will always be the quicker and easier way to modify a file.

-Q shouldn’t give you any better startup time than vanilla emacs.

Some distros have significant Emacs start-up configurations, which have an impact on start-up time. Using "-Q" skips this too. It's the case for Debian, so Ubuntu too I guess.

I used to use "jed" as a close to Emacs, light text editor to use for a quick edit from the shell. Nowadays I aliased jed to "emacs -nw -Q" (-nw: text mode, -Q: skip all configs), which subjectively starts instantaneously. And even a bare Emacs skipping the system an my configurations is very powerful. It also supports millions of colors with Konsole, so it's nice when reading code.

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