Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes - part of the strategy of flattening the curve is to buy time to scale capacity. Dedicated covid19 hospitals also have the advantage of isolating covid19 patients from high risk non-covid19 patients (e.g immunocompromised cancer patients) As the disease is so easily transmitted hospitals are partly buckling due to contamination within hospitals. A regular 50 year old probably has a good chance of surviving corona…
The "We shouldn't have killed our economy for this" online comments miss some obvious truths - which is that the economy would be crippled by a high peak regardless. At best people wouldn't go to work, at worst they'd struggle in and pass out - or maybe die - in front of their coworkers. So the economy would have ground to a halt anyway as people stayed at home to protect themselves. But it would have done it in an u…
Coronavirus clue? Most cases aboard U.S. aircraft carrier are symptom-free
501–510 of 544 posts
Re: Coronavirus clue? Most cases aboard U.S. aircraft carrier are symptom-free
#502Earlier quoted context omitted.
The ownership and distribution models aren't the problem. The problem is that while everyone is locked up at home, no one consumes, we don't go to restaurants, to malls, we don't do tourism. And in some case we don't produce either, construction is halted, etc. There is almost no economic activity going on. No economic model works when everyone is effectively on house arrest.
That sounds like an argument based on faith. Edit: that we can not "be reshaping our economic systems to be more resilient against such a crisis" seems like arguing from faith. There is no natural law that dictates that everything has to go to haywire just because things are on a pause, or that the current systems, particularly in the US, constitutes the optimal way to handle this.
Faith? That when everyone has to stay home, no significant economic activity can happen? You can call it faith...
Re: Coronavirus clue? Most cases aboard U.S. aircraft carrier are symptom-free
#503Earlier quoted context omitted.
If 0.37% is true, why are the hospitals in this shape?
Imagine all 65M people in the UK caught the virus then a 10,000 case fatality number would give a rate of 0.015%. The rate itself has no time element so it tells you nothing about the number of people in hospital right now and hence isn't very illustrative of how hospitals can be swamped by this disease. More interestingly (for me at least) is that the mortality rate is dependent on a patient's access to a ventilator…
https://www.sfgate.com/news/medical/article/Some-doctors-mov...
Re: Coronavirus clue? Most cases aboard U.S. aircraft carrier are symptom-free
#504Earlier quoted context omitted.
Imagine all 65M people in the UK caught the virus then a 10,000 case fatality number would give a rate of 0.015%. The rate itself has no time element so it tells you nothing about the number of people in hospital right now and hence isn't very illustrative of how hospitals can be swamped by this disease. More interestingly (for me at least) is that the mortality rate is dependent on a patient's access to a ventilator…
Though my understanding is that the survival rate of a covid19 patient once he requires a ventilator is around 50%. If that's true, at worst, if we ran out of ventilators, the death rate would double. That's bad and we should avoid it but the doubling of a tiny number will still be a small number. Which is why I am still confused by the ratio of 1:10 that the White House has shown between the death toll under lockdow…
https://www.sfgate.com/news/medical/article/Some-doctors-mov...
Re: Coronavirus clue? Most cases aboard U.S. aircraft carrier are symptom-free
#505Earlier quoted context omitted.
> becomes non exponential at some point From some simple calculus, becomes the (a) logistic curve.
Regardless of calculus, it becomes constant at one point. Latest when everyone is infected.
Here's the calculus: At FedEx, the BoD wanted some revenue projections. We knew (1) the current revenue and (2) the revenue for serving all the target customers. So, for time t in days, let y(t) be the revenue per day at time t, t = 0 corresponds to the present, y(0) is the current revenue. Let b be the revenue when serving all the target customers. Assume that the rate of growth in revenue, in dollars per day, that is, the calculus
y'(t) = d/dt y(t)
is directly proportional to (a) the current number of customers talking about the service and (b) the number of target customers not yet customers hearing about the service, that is proportional to y(t) and (b - y(t)).
Then for some constant of proportionality k we have the first order ordinary differential equation initial value problem
y'(t) = k y(t) (b - y(t))
Then in TeX source code, the solution is
y(t) = { y(0) b e^{bkt} \over y(0) \big ( e^{bkt} - 1 \big ) + b}
which is the famous logistic curve. So, this curve starts as an exponential and convex, rises, becomes concave, and approaches b asymptotically from below.
[On a Friday, I did the calculus, and a Senior VP of Planning and I picked a reasonable value of k, and I submitted the graph.
The next day at 8 AM was a BoD meeting. The graph was presented at the start, and two guys from BoD Member General Dynamics asked how the graph was constructed. At noon in my office I got a call from another SVP asking if I knew about the graph and could come to the meeting. When I arrived, everyone was unhappy; the two General Dynamics were standing in the hall with their bags packed and plane tickets back to Texas. FedEx was about to die. I calculated a few points on the graph; the General Dynamics guys stayed; and the rest is history.
The problem was, from the beginning of the meeting at 8 AM until noon, no one at the meeting could explain how the graph was calculated. The General Dynamics guys lost patience with FedEx, went to their rooms, packed their bags, and as a last effort returned to the meeting.]
Well the little calculus exercise is, say, an axiomatic derivation of viral growth, say, as for TV sets in US homes a few years around 1950. Well, a glance at the derivation shows that the solution should also be good for viral growth of viruses.
Can get the same thing from a continuous time, discrete state space Markov process subordinated to a Poisson process as in the book on stochastic processes by E. Çinlar, long at Princeton in operations research, etc.
Re: Coronavirus clue? Most cases aboard U.S. aircraft carrier are symptom-free
#506Earlier quoted context omitted.
If 0.37% is true, why are the hospitals in this shape?
Imagine all 65M people in the UK caught the virus then a 10,000 case fatality number would give a rate of 0.015%. The rate itself has no time element so it tells you nothing about the number of people in hospital right now and hence isn't very illustrative of how hospitals can be swamped by this disease. More interestingly (for me at least) is that the mortality rate is dependent on a patient's access to a ventilator…
Re: Coronavirus clue? Most cases aboard U.S. aircraft carrier are symptom-free
#507Earlier quoted context omitted.
If someone had AIDS and died of pneumocystis pneumonia, the latter is the cause of death, and the former is the cause of the latter.
So, if there was an epidemic of pneumonia going around, would you count that as a death due to pneumonia, and then use that statistic to help justify lock downs and enforced social distancing? Because that is what is happening when you take an extremely sick person who finally died and slap a "death by covid-19" label on them.
Re: Coronavirus clue? Most cases aboard U.S. aircraft carrier are symptom-free
#508Earlier quoted context omitted.
We've been on lockdown because approx 1% of the US population has tested positive. That means 99% are not. How can we come out of lockdown when we are effectively still where we started. We're not even close to herd immunity.
The actual CDC plan is here: https://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/editoria... It's not just "full lockdown vs no lockdown".
Re: Coronavirus clue? Most cases aboard U.S. aircraft carrier are symptom-free
#509Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is an astute point, elegantly stated.
Vacous, but elegantly stated. In a small population like an aircraft carrier, the virus stops spreading exponentially very quickly.
And, as a request, perhaps you could glance at the 'principle of charity' and choose some other term than 'vacuous' to describe an argument that your response clearly did not give sufficient thought to.
Re: Coronavirus clue? Most cases aboard U.S. aircraft carrier are symptom-free
#510I'm calling it now, I bet many people (>20%) have had it, whether they realize it or not. To be honest, I think it was all over the Bay Area in late December, Early January (when I'm pretty sure I had it) and Feb.
There is strong evidence against that, based on retesting flu survey samples collected in Seattle in Jan/Feb 2020. https://twitter.com/trvrb/status/1249414291297464321
I basically figured since my symptoms aligned 100%, and also since I live and work near the largest casino in the Bay Area (which is a hub for tons of international travelers and people from SF Chinatown) that Corona was circulating around Wuhan in Nov, and made it to the Bay Area by December, and I caught it early Jan.
I still think that's a possibility, but it does seem like it would have made it to Seattle before mid-to-late February in that scenario.
Anyway, thx for the info.