Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6 • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#501

Post by iampims » Thu, Mar 05, 2020, 4:20 AM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #482

iampims wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Namespace are not always well suited to hermetically isolate workloads.

It's probably not worth $75/month to prevent developer A's pod from interfering with developer B's pod due to an exploit in gVisor, the linux kernel, the hypervisor, or the CPU microcode. Those exploits do exist (remember Spectre and Meltdown), but probably aren't relevant to 99% of workloads. Ultimately, all isolation has its limits. Traditional VMs suffer from hypervisor exploits. Dedicated machines suffer from net…

It doesn't have to be malicious. File Descriptors aren't part of the isolation offered by cgroups, a misconfigured pod can exhaust FDs on the entire underlying Node and severely impact all other pods running on that node. Network isn't isolated either. You can saturate the network on a node by downloading large amount of data from maybe GCS/S3 and impact all pods on the node.

I agree with most things you’ve said around gVisor providing sufficient security, but it's not just about security, noisy neighbors are a big issue in large clusters.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#502

Post by justlexi93 » Thu, Mar 05, 2020, 4:21 AM UTC

A very basic truth that AWS understands is that you introduce a product at price X, and then either keep it at X or reduce the price moving forward. You never, ever, EVER increase prices on established products. You also basically never discontinue products, even if there's only a handful of customers still using it (ex: SimpleDB).

Apparently it's just too tempting to Google management to juice revenue in the short term, but screw their customer trust and adoption in the longer term.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#503

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Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#504

Post by nickbarnwell » Thu, Mar 05, 2020, 4:26 AM UTC

alasdair_ wrote: post #188

lilbobbytables wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and the docs linked from the email are not updated yet. That about sums up most things Google does for developers.

I thought the standard advice for Google stuff was "there are always two systems - the undocumented one, and the deprecated one"

What I most frequently heard was "There are two solutions: the deprecated one, and the one that doesn't work yet."

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#505

Post by dralley » Thu, Mar 05, 2020, 4:26 AM UTC

buzzkillington wrote: post #301

rolleiflex wrote: post #58

This is awful - I don’t think GCP is fully aware of their position in the market as the second, inferior choice. I took a bet on the underdog by using GCP and they bit me back in return. Especially considering their ‘default’ kubernetes config automatically sets you up with three(!) control planes in replication, that’s, as far as I understand, $~300 added to our monthly bill, for nothing. Oh, and per their docs, thr…

The projects I've been on that used GCP over AWS fell into two categories. 1). CEO with delusions of grandeur who thought that Amazon was a direct competitor to their business and should not be given money. 2). Projects that used Kubernetes. Two is the only type of project which doesn't result in tens of millions of dollars wasted.

> 1). CEO with delusions of grandeur who thought that Amazon was a direct competitor to their business and should not be given money.

I mean, look at Netflix.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#506

Post by sho » Thu, Mar 05, 2020, 4:40 AM UTC

developer2 wrote: post #484

praveenperera wrote: post #342

Good time for people to look into DigitalOcean managed Kubernetes (DOKS). I've been using it since it was in pre-release and its been great so far. Their support has been very responsive as well. https://www.digitalocean.com/products/kubernetes/

Care with DigitalOcean's Kubernetes offering. Unless they have completely revamped their entire stack since their initial release, it's a security nightmare. The way they launched it was unacceptable for any company to use. I immediately migrated my projects away and closed my account upon understanding how abysmally they screwed up the security of that offering. The fact they were willing to launch that means they c…

Are you referring to this? https://www.4armed.com/blog/hacking-digitalocean-kubernetes/

I'm curious as to whether that has been fixed and a proper security evaluation done. I've been avoiding k8s on DO for a while because of that (perfectly comfortable with their other services) but it would be good to get an update.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#507

Post by zelly » Thu, Mar 05, 2020, 5:09 AM UTC

You Probably Don't Need Kubernetes

If you're small, you can probably just run a few containers/VMs with automatic restart.

If you're big, you already made something custom like Borg.

Who's it for? Temporarily embarrassed unicorns?

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#508

Post by spicyramen » Thu, Mar 05, 2020, 5:17 AM UTC

I'm not gonna beat on the dead horse, but with GKE increase I need to explain why I choose GCP for GKE and other services like new KFP. The increase is not much TBH but the point is that there is an increase and tomorrow could be BQ and then later APIs...I don't know what to say to my manager now...

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#509

Post by aaronblohowiak » Thu, Mar 05, 2020, 5:35 AM UTC

iampims wrote: post #501

jrockway wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably not worth $75/month to prevent developer A's pod from interfering with developer B's pod due to an exploit in gVisor, the linux kernel, the hypervisor, or the CPU microcode. Those exploits do exist (remember Spectre and Meltdown), but probably aren't relevant to 99% of workloads. Ultimately, all isolation has its limits. Traditional VMs suffer from hypervisor exploits. Dedicated machines suffer from net…

It doesn't have to be malicious. File Descriptors aren't part of the isolation offered by cgroups, a misconfigured pod can exhaust FDs on the entire underlying Node and severely impact all other pods running on that node. Network isn't isolated either. You can saturate the network on a node by downloading large amount of data from maybe GCS/S3 and impact all pods on the node. I agree with most things you’ve said arou…

RLIMIT_NOFILE seems to limit FDs, or am i missing something?

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#510

Post by zapita » Thu, Mar 05, 2020, 5:36 AM UTC

spicyramen wrote: post #508

I'm not gonna beat on the dead horse, but with GKE increase I need to explain why I choose GCP for GKE and other services like new KFP. The increase is not much TBH but the point is that there is an increase and tomorrow could be BQ and then later APIs...I don't know what to say to my manager now...

I honestly can’t tell if this is satire.