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Why Child Care Is So Expensive

theatlantic.com

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Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#501

Post by MattRix »

tharne wrote: post #209
klipt wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is subsidized daycare necessary in these cases though? In America if daycare costs X and you earn Y much greater than X, then obviously you'll make more money going to work and sending your kid to daycare than being a stay at home parent. The people who choose to stay at home often either have multiple kids (higher X) or earn little enough (lower Y) that it's not an economic advantage for them to work. But those…

100%. We shouldn't be creating perverse incentives. Subsidizing a low-wage job is a net loss for everyone. For taxpayers, it's just more money out of their pocket and for the parents, you're being encouraged to leave your children with strangers so you can go and work a job that doesn't pay enough to cover the cost of paying those strangers. We need to get past the ridiculous idea that staying home with one's childre…

A large part of the reason it doesn't cost more is that a day care working can watch 5+ children at once, whereas a parent is probably only watching 1-2 kids.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#502

Post by MattRix »

HBKXNCUO wrote: post #474
speleding wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's impossible for your children to get back the time they could have spent in their most formative and vulnerable years around people that love them, rather than minimum wage daycare workers Professionally trained, well rested, day care professionals probably do that job just as well as me, or better. Also, there are 168 hours in a week and the kids still spend a large part of that with their parents.

>Professionally trained Minimum wage. High school diploma. >day care professionals probably do that job just as well as me, or better. If you are truly so terrible at taking care of children that you cannot care for your own flesh and blood better than minimum wage workers can simultaneously care for multiple children to which they have no personal emotional attachment, then please, get your children away from yourse…

The kids spend 70 hours sleeping and 40 hours at day care... That's still 58 hours to spend with their parents. That's plenty of time! Nevermind that the kind of unstructured play with other kids at day care is exactly what young kids need anyway.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#503

Post by HBKXNCUO »

satyrnein wrote: post #500
HBKXNCUO wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have reason to believe that most women throughout history were not happy being homemakers and mothers? Do you believe women are happier now that they are having few or no children and are instead working to support a corporation that will kick them to the curb when they are no longer of use to it, rather than giving love and care to the most cherished people in their lives? Some women will prefer that sort of…

Some women are happy being homemakers today, and some are happy in the workforce. (Same with men.) I'm not sure how we are currently catering to women in the workforce. If anything, it seems quite the opposite.

>Some women are happy being homemakers today, and some are happy in the workforce.

Far more were happy being homemakers in the past.

>I'm not sure how we are currently catering to women in the workforce.

Affirmative action, equal opportunity laws, corporate funded programs to instruct men how to behave around women in the workplace, pervasive media praising women with jobs, praising the child-free husband-free life, on and on and on. You have to not be looking in order to not know about it.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#504

Post by HBKXNCUO »

MattRix wrote: post #502
HBKXNCUO wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Professionally trained Minimum wage. High school diploma. >day care professionals probably do that job just as well as me, or better. If you are truly so terrible at taking care of children that you cannot care for your own flesh and blood better than minimum wage workers can simultaneously care for multiple children to which they have no personal emotional attachment, then please, get your children away from yourse…

The kids spend 70 hours sleeping and 40 hours at day care... That's still 58 hours to spend with their parents. That's plenty of time! Nevermind that the kind of unstructured play with other kids at day care is exactly what young kids need anyway.

No, it's really not 58 hours to spend with their parents.

If both parents are working, the rest of the non-work hours are going to be consumed by cooking (if there is time for that, or else expensive prepared meals), cleaning, household chores, errands, and everything else people need to do to keep functioning.

>Nevermind that the kind of unstructured play with other kids at day care is exactly what young kids need anyway.

I don't really know what the point in this comment is. Do you think kids outside of daycare don't do unstructured play with other kids?

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#505

Post by satyrnein »

HBKXNCUO wrote: post #503
satyrnein wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some women are happy being homemakers today, and some are happy in the workforce. (Same with men.) I'm not sure how we are currently catering to women in the workforce. If anything, it seems quite the opposite.

>Some women are happy being homemakers today, and some are happy in the workforce. Far more were happy being homemakers in the past. >I'm not sure how we are currently catering to women in the workforce. Affirmative action, equal opportunity laws, corporate funded programs to instruct men how to behave around women in the workplace, pervasive media praising women with jobs, praising the child-free husband-free life,…

Oh, I didn't think reducing discrimination counted as catering. You're not really saying increasing discrimination to previous levels would make women happier, are you?

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#506

Post by HBKXNCUO »

satyrnein wrote: post #505
HBKXNCUO wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Some women are happy being homemakers today, and some are happy in the workforce. Far more were happy being homemakers in the past. >I'm not sure how we are currently catering to women in the workforce. Affirmative action, equal opportunity laws, corporate funded programs to instruct men how to behave around women in the workplace, pervasive media praising women with jobs, praising the child-free husband-free life,…

Oh, I didn't think reducing discrimination counted as catering. You're not really saying increasing discrimination to previous levels would make women happier, are you?

I think encouraging them to be homemakers rather than encouraging them to be in the workforce would make them happier, generally, and that we should strongly prioritize catering to the majority. Do you think women are happier now than women in previous generations? Because all of the polling I've seen says no.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl... for instance. You can always blame it on there not being enough equality yet, or once they've passed men in whatever metric you have your eye on, you can always blame it on more abstract things.

But I don't think any amount of equality is going to make them as happy as they would be making their homes into warm and loving places for their families, and experiencing their children growing up and eventually having children of their own, in a society that appreciates them for doing just that.

If the small minority of women that that doesn't work for have a worse time in the work force because society prioritized things other than making it nice for them, too bad. I don't care. You make society strong with rules that work for the majority.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#507

Post by aceofspades19 »

objektif wrote: post #499
aceofspades19 wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be true, my perspective as a Canadian which is a fairly socialistic country compared to the US is a bit different. We have a massive problem with the brain drain as a lot of people who are college educated go to the US to earn higher salaries, especially in but not limited to tech. But its possible that the proximity to the US is a factor as you can still easily visit your friends and family in Canada while…

I dont think people are leaving Canada because they have to pay higher taxes or because they hate the healthcare system.

> I dont think people are leaving Canada because they have to pay higher taxes or because they hate the healthcare system.

That's not what I said at all. I said Canadians are leaving Canada because they can make more money outside of Canada(ie. like close to double the salary in some cases). Raising taxes is not going to encourage them to stay if they are leaving because of monetary reasons.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#509

Post by n0rbwah »

HBKXNCUO wrote: post #472
n0rbwah wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The child consequently develops antisocial behavior disorders and shoots up a classroom full of children School-shootings are such a big problem in Quebec and Scandinavian countries where childcare is subsidized. They must be caused by the evils of subsidized childcare.

Substitute whatever antisocial behavior you want, it's beside the point.

And do you have any reason to think that countries with subsidized childcare have more antisocial behavior than those without to support your claim?

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#510

Post by satyrnein »

HBKXNCUO wrote: post #506
satyrnein wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I didn't think reducing discrimination counted as catering. You're not really saying increasing discrimination to previous levels would make women happier, are you?

I think encouraging them to be homemakers rather than encouraging them to be in the workforce would make them happier, generally, and that we should strongly prioritize catering to the majority. Do you think women are happier now than women in previous generations? Because all of the polling I've seen says no. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl... for instance. You can always blame it on the…

You keep coming back to whether women were happier in the aggregate before. That's a great link, but I don't draw the same conclusions you do from it.

We're in a transition period. Women who work still have to do the majority of housework and childrearing at home, due to their male partners' lack of participation. You exalt domestic virtues in women, so surely you must agree that these men should do more to make their homes warm and loving places, experience their children growing up, etc? Or is that not the same thing?

You say you don't prioritize making workforce participation "nice" for women, but we're really just talking about making it "fair". You make society strong with rules that are fair for everyone.

Ultimately, I believe women, as all human beings, are capable of making their own choices and deserve a fair playing field. I think your preferences unfairly limit the viability of one choice and tilt the scales toward the choice you like better, and your assertion that it's for their own good just serves to infantilize them.

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