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Python Is Eating the World

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Re: Python Is Eating the World

#501
post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested to learn about how exceptions are typically using in Ocaml for non-local control flow. Exceptions have two core properties: (1) non-local jump (carrying a value) and (2) dynamic binding of place to jump to. Contrast this with e.g. break / continue in loops where (2) does not hold. If most use cases of performant OCaml exceptions were not making use of (2) that would be an interesting insight for pro…

No data as such. But here's the first example in the "batteries included" list library: let modify_opt a f l = let rec aux p = function | [] -> (match f None with | None -> raise Exit | Some v -> rev ((a,v)::p)) | (a',b)::t when a' = a -> (match f (Some b) with | None -> rev_append p t | Some b' -> rev_append ((a,b')::p) t) | p'::t -> aux (p'::p) t in try aux [] l with Exit -> l Here, the Exit exception is being rais…

Thanks.

That's, as you say, a statically scoped fast exit. One does not need the full power of exceptions for this (exceptions'd dynamic binding comes with a cost). If exceptions are widely used for this purpose, one might consider adding a nicely structured goto to the language. Something like linear delimited continuations?

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#502
post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that's what I said, there are plenty of packages for data science. For building APIs and web stuff usually there aren't. Python is nowhere near NodeJS for instance. But whatever suits, if you only know one language, it will seem like the best language out there.

This comment is so strangely off the mark I almost wonder if you're basing this off of some secondhand hearsay. Until recently, Python's largest arena of usage was web development and API scaffolding by far . A simple search would have revealed literally thousands of web development focused libraries, most centered around the Django ecosystem [1]. As another commenter mentioned: Django, DRF, Flask But unmentioned...…

When i worked with python, i remember it having less than 10% of tolling you find even around languages such as php. But you know, religious devs will stick with the only language they know.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#503

Holy Crap! What a lot of irrational, hyperbolic hate for Python. I think everybody should spend their first couple of years working in Fortran IV on IBM TSO/ISPF. No dependency management because you had to write everything yourself. Or maybe [edit: early 90's] C or C++ development where dependency management meant getting packages off a Usenet archive, uudecoding and compiling them yourself after tweaking the config…

I think it's pretty disappointing that most of the top comments don't talk about the interview with Guido himself over the history of Python. Tangentially related discussion is one of the appeals of HN but I think it's a bit out of control here.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#504
post #471

Holy Crap! What a lot of irrational, hyperbolic hate for Python. I think everybody should spend their first couple of years working in Fortran IV on IBM TSO/ISPF. No dependency management because you had to write everything yourself. Or maybe [edit: early 90's] C or C++ development where dependency management meant getting packages off a Usenet archive, uudecoding and compiling them yourself after tweaking the config…

Isn't it also just as much about Python is having it's day, granted a day long in the waiting but many langs go through this (Ruby, PHP) and then it tapers off and the next language has it's day. Probably Go will be the next hotness in 5 years.

> Probably Go will be the next hotness in 5 years.

I think it will be difficult to grow a large ecosystem for a language with very poor FFI performance [0] in the long run. Golang's poor FFI performance is the number 1 reason I wouldn't use it for my own projects.

[0]: https://github.com/dyu/ffi-overhead

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#505
old languages decided backward compatibility should be maintained, result is: bloated runtime

and you have python, decided to drop compatibility with previous version and is now still #1

.net / java / c++ they are diying because of their bloated and heavy nature

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, I love Go but I'm not sure it's the next "hot" thing, all the recent "hot" languages have been scripting languages PHP, Ruby, Python, JS ... I'd say JS and Python are currently jockeying for that position.

Isn’t JS one of the most popular languages? It has a monopoly in the browser so that and C++ already has the most impact on users. Hard to see how it can become more popular.

> It has a monopoly in the browser

Well, there’s WebAssembly…

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah.. not sure why the love for Ruby faded in startup-world

I think many people still "love" ruby I never liked Python from day 1 of my work (I am Ruby on Rails Dev for my job) Wish there are more useful projects written in ruby :)

I am trying to find a place in the industry - again, starting from RoR. I absolutely love Ruby. And all this talk of "Ruby dying" makes me feel sad. The rational thing to do is to move on, and learn something popular, like node.js but the more I see Ruby in action, I just can't pull myself away from it.

I had managed to get a job as a Java developer a long time ago, but at that time all I could do was barely write toy apps in Java and I had no exposure to stuff like design patterns. The whole experience left me in a bad place. Now after all these years, Ruby feels like a breath of fresh air, and the texts that I have come across on the subject - Design Patterns in Ruby, Practical OOD in Ruby, Ruby under a Microscope etc. have increased my interest in the language.

But more and more frequent articles on Ruby's decline are pretty disheartening.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No? You have Django and DRF and Flask. DRF is, by far, the best designed framework for building APIs in any programming language I have ever seen, and I've at this game for a long time. JavaScript has 10 times more packages than PyPi, and for the most part they are absolute garbage with no intent on being maintained. Python has substantially fewer packages where the community rallies around them and keeps them as bes…

Oh nice, you have two frameworks. Well, whatever suits your fixed mindset.

>Oh nice, you have two frameworks. Well, whatever suits your fixed mindset.

Let me see, you've got Django, DRF, Flask, Flask-Restful, Flask-Restplus, Flask-API, sanic, pyramid, Cornice, hug, falcon, eve, bottle, tornado, aiohttp, vibora, weppy, starlette...

Those are just some that I've picked out of my head.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#509

Holy Crap! What a lot of irrational, hyperbolic hate for Python. I think everybody should spend their first couple of years working in Fortran IV on IBM TSO/ISPF. No dependency management because you had to write everything yourself. Or maybe [edit: early 90's] C or C++ development where dependency management meant getting packages off a Usenet archive, uudecoding and compiling them yourself after tweaking the config…

I find programming in Python dull and a little mind numbing. Sure, maybe Python was an okay choice 20 years ago, but the world has left it behind at this point. It’s lack of functional programming constructs, very few data structures in the stdlib, terrible performance, worthless statement vs expression semantics, no multi threading, no macros, etc.

Instead of evolving into something okay, Python is pretty much the same broken language as it’s always been, run by a guy who is openly hostile to PL theory, FP, and any major changes to Python whatsoever.

If you ever need/want to use Python, do yourself a favor and use Racket instead. Racket is better than Python in every single way (unless you are doing data science with Python, in which case fine keep using it).

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#510
post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Famous one: > There are two kind of languages: the ones everybody hates, and the ones nobody uses.

Slightly wrong. Here's the original: "There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses." Bjarne Stroustrup's FAQ: Did you really say that?. Retrieved on 2007-11-15.

aka People complain about things they use.
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