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Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

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Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Haya people from contemporary Tanzania began making steel 2,000 years ago. http://www.uh.edu/engines/epi385.htm

Hmm... And so? Hardly the first. [0] Although, I admit, I wouldn't have thought that Tanzania would be so advanced in that era. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_metallurgy

Your citation was about iron metallurgy in Rome, not steel.

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say they had horses for those types of traveling, except they most likely didn’t. Only a successful farmer... We can't make a universal rule like this. Everyone has a particular mental image of how farming worked long ago, but circumstances varied. Horses can eat a wide variety of plants, including something that is growing wild right outside your door. The density of farmers probably had more to do with whether…

Horses could bot be used for farming until the invention of the harness which was actually pretty late (steam tractors were not far behind). Until then oxen were used which could use a simple yoke. Even after the complex harness oxen were generally more practical for farm use.

There were horse collars in Europe by 1000 AD, and the Chinese had them much earlier. Pulling a plow isn't the only use for a horse, anyway.

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#503
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bamboo-frame bicycles exist today as a fashionable item, and as far as I can tell without having ridden one, they work for practical purposes just as well as metal-frame ones. I suspect you could make a perfectly acceptable modern bicycle with 18th century technology, albeit not as durable. Metal axles aren't much of a problem. Light and strong wheels are trickier, but you could get away with solid wooden ones, or em…

The existence of huge numbers of wooden scooters called chukudu in Democratic Republic of Congo and Rwanda disproves this. Apparently they are made with simple woodworking tools, transport 500 pounds and last 2-3 years.

I read one source that says metal ball bearings are used to attach the wooden wheels to the wooden axle. Makes sense, because otherwise the friction would probably make the device impractical.

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#504
post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you do any physical activity that you are unused to you will have slight pains etc. It's not about being used to it - I'd been cycling for years. There will always be muscle soreness from using your legs, but an upright brings a totally unnecessary set of aches and pains in other places - wrists, taint, shoulders, neck - because of the awkward hunched position and the fact that you're supporting your body weight…

> It's not about being used to it - I'd been cycling for years. There will always be muscle soreness from using your legs, but an upright brings a totally unnecessary set of aches and pains in other places - wrists, taint, shoulders, neck - because of the awkward hunched position and the fact that Your bike doesn't fit! This is like saying "I wore shoes that are two sizes too small and my feet hurt". This isn't a val…

> Your bike doesn't fit! This is like saying "I wore shoes that are two sizes too small and my feet hurt".

Happened with multiple bikes, after having a fit, and it's not like I got the recumbent fitted. And a post back you were saying it was normal for cycling to feel like boxing training. (It is - for upright cycling).

> You are not everyone and just because you have problems the vast majority of people do not. My nan who is 4ft 11 (so a very small lady) managed with a regular bicycle until she was in her late 70s. Are you saying that you are frailer than a woman in her late 70s?

So someone who's about half the weight of the average person didn't suffer issues from having too much weight on too small an area. That's exactly what I'd expect. The vast majority of people do find cycling uncomfortable - and don't cycle as a result.

> I ride almost everywhere in jeans and t-shirt unless when it is boiling hot in summer when I wear T-shirt and shorts. I don't ride like some people who seem to think it is the tour-de-france everyday.

Does this not suggest that it's you who's unusual? People don't wear those padded shorts for fun, they wear them because it's unpleasant not to. Maybe you're some combination of light, riding short distances, insensitive to particular kinds of pain, or just unusually suited to saddles via some random quirk of anatomy. Lucky you, but you are not representative.

> Fixing the chain coming off is literally just feeding it back on. Does it take years of experience to loop something round cog ... no.

You think that as an experienced cyclist. I've had to stop for people on the side of the road who couldn't/wouldn't put their chain back on, more than once. A normal commuter just isn't interested in learning how to do maintenance, even something that basic.

> You are just making stuff up to win the argument at this point.

Wow, that's some first-tier projection there.

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still blows my mind that they abandoned the printing press for aesthetic reasons, long before Gutenberg was born. And bamboo really is a hell of a material. The breadth of vocational materials science they had was staggering.

Well, their printing press wasn't nearly as useful as Gutenberg's. Mostly because of weak materials. A printing press isn't as useful if you have to manually verify and fix the types ever other print.

I had heard another other issue cited as a possible culprit - that their alphabet wasn't very suited to it given their vast number of characters not gaining as much.

It brings to mind one artifact of letter construction being based upon the writing method - cuneiform vs ink pen letters for instance.

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#506
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The precision of keeping all those threads perfectly spaced is one thing " Making the first precision screw requires a "screw originating machine".[1][2] This is a special-purpose device which can make a better screw than the ones used in building it. Then you can install the first precision screw in a lathe and make more screws in harder metals. This is how precision is bootstrapped. [1] https://chestofbooks.com/ho…

> "The precision of keeping all those threads perfectly spaced is one thing" > Making the first precision screw requires a "screw originating machine".[1][2] This is a special-purpose device which can make a better screw than the ones used in building it. I hadn't realized screws would be needed to create a screw-making machine. I love that we have machines that make better versions of their own components, something…

I heard an interesting anecdote about screw manufacturing. A friend of mine was in china talking to manufacturers there.

He asked about standard screw sizes and was told that there were no standard sizes or "in stock", and he should just tell them what size he wanted because their supplier just makes whatever size screws they need.

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#508
post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assembling a bike from parts would be a challenge for many people here. Assembling a wheel from parts is beyond most people, including many bike mechanics. In fact most wheels are assembled by machines, else labor costs would be too high. Used to be it was mostly serious amateurs and professionals that had them hand built. They’re more reliable, but I think it’s more to do with the combinatorial explosion of parts. M…

> Assembling a wheel from parts is beyond most people, Just how shitty wheel would be admissible here? A wooden octagon?

I've built bicycle wheels from parts. It's a bit tricky and time-consuming, but perfectly doable. The real tricky part IMO is getting all of the nipple adjustments just right so that roundness, tension, and track are all acceptable at the same time.

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#509
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would be less efficient, but still workable. Even just wood on wood is sufficient. Proof: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcvFpbh2fjE Your "proof" is unconvincing. 1. The bike looks super wobbly and seems like it takes a lot of effort to just make it function properly. Yes, it is an example of a wooden bicycle, but it is not an example of a useful wooden bicycle. It seems like it probably has a pretty short wo…

Well it was a youtube gimmick, just a proof that wood-on-wood isn't as high friction as people think. But there were wooden bicycles without ball bearings in real-life history and they worked with the infrastructure they had. How well they worked is a different thing, but still it proves "no tech to build a bicycle" isn't the reason we waited for bicycles for thousands of years. We had people jumping off towers with…

I completely agree with you, slaves were a major cultural and economic motivation behind technological innovation (or lack thereof). Consider the aforementioned example of the cotton gin, which used rather simple tech to replace slaves. This device was only invented when slavery became legally dubious. If Romans (or Greeks, or Egyptians, or the Chinese, etc) of antiquity could have opened their eyes beyond the use of slavery as a source of power, technological innovation would almost certainly have improved

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#510
post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not about being used to it - I'd been cycling for years. There will always be muscle soreness from using your legs, but an upright brings a totally unnecessary set of aches and pains in other places - wrists, taint, shoulders, neck - because of the awkward hunched position and the fact that Your bike doesn't fit! This is like saying "I wore shoes that are two sizes too small and my feet hurt". This isn't a val…

> Your bike doesn't fit! This is like saying "I wore shoes that are two sizes too small and my feet hurt". Happened with multiple bikes, after having a fit, and it's not like I got the recumbent fitted. And a post back you were saying it was normal for cycling to feel like boxing training. (It is - for upright cycling). > You are not everyone and just because you have problems the vast majority of people do not. My n…

> And a post back you were saying it was normal for cycling to feel like boxing training. (It is - for upright cycling).

I know I said I wouldn't reply but that is a totally disingenuous interpretation of what I said and there is no way I could leave that be.

I never said such a thing. I said if you don't do something for years you will ache. Thai boxing was an extreme example to ram the point home as you were being thick headed about the subject.

> Does this not suggest that it's you who's unusual? People don't wear those padded shorts for fun, they wear them because it's unpleasant not to. Maybe you're some combination of light, riding short distances, insensitive to particular kinds of pain, or just unusually suited to saddles via some random quirk of anatomy. Lucky you, but you are not representative.

No not at all. I see many people cycling in normal-ish clothing on fixed gears, racing bikes, mountain bikes etc.

It is really frustrating when you will deny reality. I've cycled to work in many different countries (UK, Spain, Denmark, Germany) and the vast majority of people where normal clothes.

Here are some from Denmark (not taken from me but I did live there)

https://imgur.com/a/9b4O5l5

https://imgur.com/a/IoXzYVx

This was taken by me while waiting in Gibraltar.

https://imgur.com/a/xkDXWal

This is a picture from Bournemouth

https://imgur.com/a/dHdpA5J

A shot from Manchester (I used to live there as well)

https://imgur.com/a/wlr2xWx

All wearing normal clothing and not struggling. I am sorry but it simply isn't true that I am unusual.

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