SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships • Hacker News Board

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#501

Post by svd4anything » Fri, May 17, 2019, 2:23 AM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #367

grawprog wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did pretty well on the standardized tests in high school. If this had existed, i likely would have scored higher than average on adversity. I would be pissed to find out my score was altered in any way due to factors outside my control. If I do well on something, i want it to be from my own merits, whatever my current situation. I don't want to be pandered to because i grew up poor in a shitty neighbourhood. Everyt…

> because of my own intelligence and skill... Fuck anyone giving me points for things i didn't work for or that are outside my control... Your "intelligence" is definitely one of those things completely outside your control. What you've done with it is at least partially under your control, but you probably weren't born with any sort of brain disorder, for example. EDIT: adding on things like your visual appearance -…

So attractiveness adjustment score is also needed right?

Physical traits have huge correlations and almost certainly causation to wealth and success.

Tax credits for the ugly. Or maybe mandatory minor face disfigurement for the very beautiful.

Hating the rich is hate.

College board should use their zipcode model to provide free tutoring services instead of trying to punish Asian families who made sacrifices to live in better neighborhoods.

Holding down the top doesn't work, isn’t ethical and is not the same as lifting up the bottom.

Love the poor by helping them lift themselves up.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#502

Post by HighValuation » Fri, May 17, 2019, 2:23 AM UTC

p1necone wrote: post #288

fuzz4lyfe wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I’m getting pushed further and further to the right. Maybe not, it feels like to me that the Overton window[0] has been sliding left. My views on freedom of speech made me a 'leftist commie' when I used them to defend South Park and Eminem now most often I'm accused being 'alt-right' by those who disagree with those same views. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

Anecdotal, but I notice a lot more people clamoring about freedom of speech when it's white supremacists being affected and a lot less when it's ISIS or Al-Qaeda. I find it very hard to take them seriously because of this, despite agreeing with a lot of the sentiment.

I’m Asian and I get called a white supremacist on the internet everyday. I’ve even been called that in person once or twice for arguing against AA. The only time leftists are truly race blind is when they assume everyone that disagrees with them is white. I feel like I’m living in the black and white Twilight Zone, the label has turned into an absolute joke.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#503

Post by jhayward » Fri, May 17, 2019, 2:23 AM UTC

rhegart wrote: post #131

Equality of opportunity over outcome for me. Now Asians will be discriminated against secretly. My family sacrificing vacations and eating out for 12 years (literally ate out 5x max) to afford to live in a good school district shouldn’t penalize us. My dad commuted 4 hours daily instead of moving...I’m getting pushed further and further to the right.

> I’m getting pushed further and further to the right.

No one's pushing you. If you really are a conservative, you should take responsibility for your own views and actions. Don't blame them on someone else.

I'll also note that all of the things you describe as your personal virtues that are supposedly under attack were actually things provided to you by your parents. Not accomplishments of your own. Why should someone who's parents are addicts, have mental health issues, or crippling medical issues feel like the testing is a level playing field when they didn't get those advantages?

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#504

Post by tw04 » Fri, May 17, 2019, 2:23 AM UTC

rhegart wrote: post #131

Equality of opportunity over outcome for me. Now Asians will be discriminated against secretly. My family sacrificing vacations and eating out for 12 years (literally ate out 5x max) to afford to live in a good school district shouldn’t penalize us. My dad commuted 4 hours daily instead of moving...I’m getting pushed further and further to the right.

Let me get this straight - because "College Board" - which has literally no government or political affiliation - has decided to introduce an adversity score, you're going to vote for the party that brought us Betsy "We need a little more rape on college campuses" Devoss?

I'm struggling to find the logical progression there... how is this elected Democratic officials fault? They have literally no control or say in what the College Board does.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_Board

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#505

Post by whatshisface » Fri, May 17, 2019, 2:23 AM UTC

mirrorlake wrote: post #476

grawprog wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? I chose to learn the things i learned outside of school and to an extent the things i chose to learn in both high school and university. I didn't have to learn those things. I could have spent my time watching tv or doing other things. I know the things i know because i spent time and effort learning them.

Think about an extreme case: a hypothetical person who was born an autistic savant who is a musical genius. They sold out concert halls at age 9-10, playing the hardest classical music ever written. To what degree did they “earn” their skills and their genius? At a certain point you must agree that people are born with brains that are wired better, and they had no control over that. Effort should be rewarded, but luc…

In your autistic savant musician example, they are probably practicing obsessively every second they can manage, and may actually have earned their success. Does their hard work not count because their biology "made them do it?" I guess that's a question that cuts right to the heart of free will and applies to all of us in the end.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#506

Post by ceejayoz » Fri, May 17, 2019, 2:24 AM UTC

lr4444lr wrote: post #437

tankerdude wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: "The score will be calculated using 15 factors, including the relative quality of the student’s high school and the crime rate and poverty level of the student’s neighborhood." So no, it doesn't account for you to secretly discriminate against you. What it does do, for the penalization part, is that the schools that are in affluent neighborhoods have access to much better resources than ones from Co…

I dated a girl once whose family had a ton of money - think billions. She lived in the ritziest of neighborhoods, went to the best private schools, and had private tutors galore. I was a middle class income kid from a middle class neighborhood. She however, was also unfortunate enough to have early onset M.S. and could not sit comfortably for a very long, no matter how many tutors you gave her, and extra time couldn'…

> The so-called "adversity score" would never capture her private medical struggle.

She's probably gonna mention the MS in her essay, though.

There are always edge cases. That we can't perfectly capture each and every one of them doesn't mean some data on common advantages/disadvantages can't be useful.

(Plus, there's going to be a number of more conventionally disadvantaged kids with MS, too, who don't have the billions of dollars to lean on.)

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#507

Post by harryh » Fri, May 17, 2019, 2:24 AM UTC

darawk wrote: post #483

harryh wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a matter of degree. Some sacrifice = great. Extreme sacrifice = bad.

Is not eating out or taking vacations too much sacrifice?

It is when combined with "commuted 4 hours daily."

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#508

Post by savrajsingh » Fri, May 17, 2019, 2:25 AM UTC

gnicholas wrote: post #472

remote_phone wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I already talked to my wife about this. I would retire, we would divorce, and I would rent a shitty apartment in East Palo Alto all the while living in our house. If they think they can boil my kids into a single number without bothering to find the context of who my kids are then I will game it to as much as possible. I don’t know why my family should be punished because my wife and I worked our asses off to get ahe…

I recently heard of a high earning family that bought a rental/investment property in EPA, then when their kid got into the Tinsley program (school busing from EPA to Palo Alto/Menlo/Portola/Woodside) they decided to move there full time. Their kid now goes to a fancy school and they live in a development in EPA near Facebook HQ. So to all the naysayers, people are already doing crazy stuff like this to help their ki…

Perhaps a side benefit of this crazy score is forced gentrification of all areas until their score falls to 50 /s

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#509

Post by rifung » Fri, May 17, 2019, 2:25 AM UTC

rhegart wrote: post #131

Equality of opportunity over outcome for me. Now Asians will be discriminated against secretly. My family sacrificing vacations and eating out for 12 years (literally ate out 5x max) to afford to live in a good school district shouldn’t penalize us. My dad commuted 4 hours daily instead of moving...I’m getting pushed further and further to the right.

> Equality of opportunity over outcome for me

I'm also Asian American.

This to me seems like it IS opportunity over outcome though. If you have two people who are equally hard working and one grows up in a disadvantaged environment, the latter going to score lower.

My parents sacrificed a lot so I could go to a good school. It was completely obvious to see that not that hard working people at my school would do much better than extremely hard working people from poorer districts.

The thing is, I imagine the people who worked harder but scored lower would probably fare better if given equal opportunity but they aren't.

> My family sacrificing vacations and eating out for 12 years (literally ate out 5x max) to afford to live in a good school district shouldn’t penalize us. My dad commuted 4 hours daily instead of moving...I’m getting pushed further and further to the right

If implemented correctly (and that's a big if) this should just make it so parents don't have to go through those sacrifices. Isn't that a good thing?

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#510

Post by darawk » Fri, May 17, 2019, 2:27 AM UTC

kaitai wrote: post #481

darawk wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what your point is. Nobody mentioned Harvard. This de-values the efforts of parents to improve their kids education. If you devalue something, you get less of it. Simple as that.

Can you spell out how it devalues the efforts of parents to improve their children's education?

Sure. The adversity score looks at things like the crime rate of the neighborhood you grew up in. That neighborhood is (primarily) a function of two things: Your parents income level, and their ability to prioritize what income they do have to make sure you're in a good neighborhood. The second thing is what's being de-valued. Some parents work really hard and pinch every penny to devote resources to their kid's education. Scoring kids based on adversity partially mitigates those efforts for the purpose of getting into college.