Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

theoutline.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

501–510 of 644 posts

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#501

Post by hollander »

randallsquared wrote: post #471
gnicholas wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spend less than 10% of my time at my computer maxing my processor. I spend more than 90% of my time using the keyboard. I’ve seriously considered selling my 2017 MBP and buying a 2018 MBA. Then I heard the problems still haven’t been solved with that model and nixed that idea. But I would much rather have a slower machine with a reliable/comfortable keyboard than a faster machine with a brittle/uncomfortable one.

Speed and utilization are not the same. My 2018 MBP was a great speed improvement over the 2015 MBP I previously used, even in cases where the 2015 MBP wasn't using all cores (which really rarely happened, since for the workloads I use, multiple Electron apps and Docker for Mac, typing in Slack would start stuttering as soon as multiple cores were in constant use). I don't think it was ever usable enough at 6-7 cores…

If you spend big bucks on a MBP, and still have problems with performance, you could start using the cloud or a home server for that docker stuff. Scaleway has reasonable priced servers, or you buy something like a simple Zotac Mini PC to run as linux server at home.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#502

Post by marmaduke »

culturestate wrote: post #177
marmaduke wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The research project in question will use as much RAM as is available, and we already have 128gb machines available, and access to larger. Why, for just running some MATLAB scripts through SSH would you need to stay with the Apple ecosystem for that?

I have no idea. Could be some OS X package oddity, or maybe they just like to AirDrop stuff to themselves? In any case, I suspect if you do a little discovery with that person - what specific problem are you trying to solve by staying with a Mac? - you'll find the answer. You might even be able to convince them to change their order if you find it's something that can be easily worked around in a way they hadn't thou…

Also since you mentioned research, in my domain people buy those MacBooks because they can, because they are a status symbol, just to run Word and read PDFs, because all the big people in our field have macs. I see this as a cult to be honest.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#503

Post by TaylorAlexander »

npongratz wrote: post #437
camelNotation wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only are Thinkpad keyboards the most comfortable and satisfying on the market, you can literally pour water on them and it will drain out the bottom of the laptop without ever touching internal components. After using my Thinkpad for about six months, I can't go back. The keyboard is amazing, build quality is rock solid, screen is 4k with 100% RGB, and you can actually upgrade the thing. I buy a laptop because I…

I want to like Thinkpads for their hardware quality, but I cannot get over Lenovo stuffing malware into their systems, even after they got caught. How can I be put at ease?

When I bought my thinkpad I booted directly to the Debian installer via USB and wiped the disk. I get great battery life (check the Arch wiki for tips on your specific machine to fix a few issues that may give it bad battery at first install).

The keyboard is wonderful and everything except the fingerprint scanner works great.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#504

Post by kingaillas »

thedanbob wrote: post #85
threeseed wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me add a few more: 1) SMS/iMessages synced across all devices and able to send from any of the devices e.g. Mac or non-4G iPad. 2) 2FA codes received on your iPhone are automatically populated in Safari text fields on your Mac. 3) Safari window opened on an iPhone will appear as an icon on the Mac so you can easily pick up where you left off. Works for a number of other apps as well. And in every direction. 4) Ai…

When I switched from macOS to linux, the things I missed the most were AirDrop and being able to text from my computer. I'll admit I still haven't found substitutes for either that are nearly as nice.

I use Message for Web for texting from my computer, but then when I switched from macos to linux, I also switched from iphone to android.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#505

Post by TaylorAlexander »

camelNotation wrote: post #410
cmiles74 wrote: post #324

A co-worked of mine convinced the company to buy them a MacBook (the first the company has ever purchased) to replace their aging Dell laptop. They have been doing more and more work on the company's iOS app and the aging Mac mini the company had purchased needed to replaced anyway. After having the laptop for just over a year, they called me upset as the laptop would no longer power on. After some gentle interrogati…

Not only are Thinkpad keyboards the most comfortable and satisfying on the market, you can literally pour water on them and it will drain out the bottom of the laptop without ever touching internal components. After using my Thinkpad for about six months, I can't go back. The keyboard is amazing, build quality is rock solid, screen is 4k with 100% RGB, and you can actually upgrade the thing. I buy a laptop because I…

Note that I believe the water pouring trick does not apply to the Thinkpad Carbon X1. I killed a third gen X1 years ago from a water spill. Luckily Lenovo fixed it for $500.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#506

Post by robertAngst »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #234
robertAngst wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Reliability issues are a problem, but that's all within reason I think. No, when your product doesnt work, that is unacceptable.

This the real world: every physical product has tolerances and exhibits problems, and most that are expensive require maintenance. Moreover, new features are going to be problematic. Consider your statement as it would apply to cars for example: they are in constant need of repair, tweaking, maintenance. Butterfly keyboards have never been a problem for me, the issue is really the rate of problems, how they are fixed…

Design it so it doesnt break despite tolerances?

This is engineering, having something fail is not acceptable.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#507

Post by fumar »

dmitryminkovsky wrote: post #428
fumar wrote: post #277

I just came back to a MacBook Pro 2018 after several years of experimenting with Windows machines. Based on this thread I am outlier – I enjoy using the trackpad, touch strip, and the keyboard seems fine. In the past five years I have used the following; Thinkpad x230, Thinkpad X1 carbon, Thinkpad x370 yoga, Thinkpad X1 Yoga, Surface Pro 3,4,5, Surface Laptop, Surface Book 1,2, and a hackintosh Thinkpad X230. I was a…

Naa you’re not alone. I love the new MBP keyboard. My experience to suggests what we have here is a vocal minority. I type faster with the new style keyboard, I enjoy the springiness of the keys and their much larger size than previous iterations. I also like how their backlighting works compared to the old style. If people are having trouble with them, Apple should resolve those issues, but in my opinion the keyboar…

We should all advocate for continuous improvements for machines we rely day to day. What I learned is that no one else is making a better laptop than Apple. I tried a lot of machines and spent way too much money and time trying to make them worthwhile. The Surface line is riddled with issues. I defended it in the past (see old comments from me), because I felt Apple was not innovating. But, hindsight I would rather have a reliable machine. Wifi would break all the time on Surfaces, battery would drain on its own while in my bag, the pen would lag, etc. I don't think anyone would be happy if Apple release a similar product. I gave the Surface team several tries through their iterations and they never fixed the main issues.

Someone else said it, the new Apple wireless keyboards are great. I have one at work and at home.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#508

Post by gnicholas »

jammygit wrote: post #489
gnicholas wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A desktop keyboard is a completely different story than a laptop. It can be much thicker and therefore more mechanical than a laptop keyboard. I don’t need my laptop to be slurpee-proof, and given the trade offs of laptop design I hope it isn’t. I’d think this would add significant heft to the device to be able to guarantee such performance.

Fair enough, but I'd just say that I don't mind an extra half inch if the device weighed the same. IMHO, 10 year old 13 inch laptops were plenty small, but I do appreciate the lower weights

Sure, I wouldn't mind a tiny bit thicker to get the old MBA/MBP style keyboard back. I also loved the "Blackbook" keyboard, and the 12" Aluminum PowerBook. Those were the days!

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#510

Post by burlesona »

fjp wrote: post #357
fumar wrote: post #277

I just came back to a MacBook Pro 2018 after several years of experimenting with Windows machines. Based on this thread I am outlier – I enjoy using the trackpad, touch strip, and the keyboard seems fine. In the past five years I have used the following; Thinkpad x230, Thinkpad X1 carbon, Thinkpad x370 yoga, Thinkpad X1 Yoga, Surface Pro 3,4,5, Surface Laptop, Surface Book 1,2, and a hackintosh Thinkpad X230. I was a…

I'm in the same boat as you. I wish my company had issued me the model without the touchbar, as I very much would prefer physical function and esc keys but other than that I love the machine and have never had issues. The one thing I would change is that I seem to have to reach way over to the right side of the trackpad to get a "right-click". I also have a ~2016 macbook air and the keyboard SUCKS in comparison to th…

As a sibling said you can set it to have two-finger taps be right click.

On my older (smaller trackpad) MBP I thought that setting was dumb and I avoided it. On the newer (2018) I was having a hard time reaching all the way to the right, so I finally decided to give two-finger tap another try.

Years ago a developer friend told me that for any workflow change you should give it one week of total commitment, no switching back and forth, then decide if you want to stick with it.

For me that was more than enough time to learn to love the two-finger right click. As with most successful workflow switches, the one week evaluation deadline came and went without me noticing, and I never looked back.

Post reply on HN