When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves • Hacker News Board

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#501

Post by mywittyname » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 12:58 AM UTC

bsder wrote: post #487

mywittyname wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This same argument could be applied to many long-term medical studies: Maybe people with a pre-disposition to heart disease also hate exercising, so the link between heart disease is and lack of exercise is backwards. Yeah, that doesn't work. Ignoring the link between mental illness and marijuana use is ridiculous. A medical study doesn't need 100% confidence to be true. If we held all of medical science to that bar,…

> Ignoring the link between mental illness and marijuana use is ridiculous. Your statement presupposes the conclusion. You need to consider two different questions: 1) Do we have correlation between marijuana usage and mental illness above and beyond the line for something as common as alcohol or cigarettes? 2) Do we have have causation between marijuana and mental illness? Most studies barely reach an "inconclusive,…

Alcohol is a red herring and serves no purpose in this discussion. The public has been made aware of the dangers of alcohol consumption.

> The relationship between cannabis and schizophrenia fulfills many but not all of the standard criteria for causality, including temporality, biological gradient, biological plausibility, experimental evidence, consistency, and coherence. At the present time, the evidence indicates that cannabis may be a component cause in the emergence of psychosis, and this warrants serious consideration from the point of view of public health policy. [0]

That's pretty solid, and far from "inconclusive." Animal testing have already confirmed that mice with certain genetic markers will develop schizophrenia if exposed to THC. [1]

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24904437

[1] https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317170.php

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#502

Post by smileysteve » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 1:02 AM UTC

thecatspaw wrote: post #399

smileysteve wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Peanuts are also not (mentally) addictive, and neither do they alter your mental state Yes, they are? Anecdotally, if i put a bowl of peanuts on my desk, I'll eat them without knowing it, and speed up eating them when nervous, thinking, or bored. Any habit a human does enough can be mentally addictive. Importantly, neither are physiologically addictive.

True, they can be mentally addictive as well. Your example isnt about addiction though. its that most likely you are kinda hungry, want to do something with your hands while you are thinking, or a nervous tick. mariam webster defines addiction as follows > : compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance (such as heroin, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symp…

My point in emphasizing is that there are no known physiological addictive components of canabis.

Presumably, the op knows the same, hence specified mentally addictive, but is confused because they don't think peanuts have the same, but they do. Mentally addictive only means you like the way it makes you feel so you keep doing it, not that your receptors actually need it or stop functioning without it (chemical dependence)

Cannabinoids have similar addiction pathways (dopamine receptors) as sex, sugar, and, for this example, salt.

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#503

Post by henriquemaia » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 1:15 AM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #438

adventured wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a big supporter of legalization, because I think prohibition is dramatically worse than any negatives from people smoking pot (similar to alcohol, etc). That said, the two friends of mine that were the heaviest smokers, saw dramatic improvements in their lives in the few years immediately following giving up smoking pot. Both in terms of health and professional success. They were recreational smokers, rather than…

I am a huge opposer of legalization, because I've seen what pot has done to people I care about. I would point out that solution to the negatives of prohibition is not legalization, but decriminalization. The issue with legalization is that it removes the stigma with trying it, which means we get more users than otherwise. We can maintain the very correct statements that drugs are bad and that all possible care shoul…

It’s not up to the law to take upon itself the role of arbiter of society’s truer mores.

Once you establish a strong connection between what is lawful and what is moral, you open up the ominous gate of any future conflation of moral duty with any reproachable reach of law.

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#504

Post by Zanni » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 1:18 AM UTC

drooogs wrote: post #498

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a huge opposer of legalization, because I've seen what pot has done to people I care about. I would point out that solution to the negatives of prohibition is not legalization, but decriminalization. The issue with legalization is that it removes the stigma with trying it, which means we get more users than otherwise. We can maintain the very correct statements that drugs are bad and that all possible care shoul…

> I am a huge opposer of legalization, because I've seen what pot has done to people I care about. frankly, this argument has no place in a society that considers itself free. it is not for you to tell me what harm i may inflict on my own body, nor to restrict others from helping me do it.

You're staking out a pretty extreme position there. Society has already accepted: helmet laws, seatbelt laws, mandatory health insurance, age limits for alcohol and tobacco consumption, food and drug regulations, etc.

You can argue that our society can't consider itself free, but it's the society we have and the same argument is in play on a number of issues.

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#505

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 1:33 AM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #495

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider: As a child I grew up in a home with a violent alcoholic father. Should we shutdown licensed alcohol vendors because a few people react badly to alcohol / are irresponsible drinkers? Obviously not. The majority of people I've met have not been problem drinkers, nor problem users.

Drugs do not just lead you to harm others. In fact, like alcohol, most drug users probably do not harm others. But both cause significant self-harm. And society ends up bearing the burden of helping people who aren't able to help themselves, be it on an individual level or a governmental level.

While I agree with your general sentiment, I’m not convinced I have a comprehensive alternative to the current standard: legal / decriminalisation + harm reduction.

Prohibition seems like the least best alternative. I’m open to being wrong though.

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#506

Post by LrnByTeach » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 1:41 AM UTC

memebox3v wrote: post #415

LrnByTeach wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All high school weed smokers are not equal. There are many occasional smokers. For the sake of simplicity, let me put a number here. High schooler between 9th to 12 grade who smoke weed at least 10 times a week all four years will settle in LIFE below 50% of his potential (compared to how he would have done without weed)

I knew a guy at university who smoked everyday. And before he took exams or tests, he would do a bong hit to settle his nerves. He got a 1st in Chemistry. #anecdatasmackdown

>a guy at university who smoked everyday

You did not read my post well. You did not know the guy you said did what I mentioned "10 times a week, for all 4 years 9-12 grade", If he did, he is unlikely to reach university. Even if few kids reach university with parents money, they would not have got 1st in Chemistry.

You may still show me 15 guys who reached university top class ranks after doing 4 year high school heavy weed. In the same high school I can show 85 kids (4 year high school heavy weed users) whose life prospects are diminished by the time they finish the collage .

That is the whole point

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#507

Post by stouset » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 2:17 AM UTC

Buldak wrote: post #375

thecatspaw wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same? You can rationalize peanuts beeing unhealthy for you exactly the same way you can rationalize away health issues due to marijuana. "All other people eating it are fine" "I've been eating peanuts for 5 years, and look, Im still alive"

People harmed by peanuts generally aren't interested in eating peanuts and don't do it except by accident. That's not true for drugs.

Every drug is not heroin or meth. In fact, with the exception of cocaine, the overwhelming majority of recreational drug use (weed, MDMA, LSD, even ketamine) is relatively low risk for addiction.

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#508

Post by weberc2 » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 3:44 AM UTC

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #489

weberc2 wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The good thing is with legalization moving along we should see a lot more high quality studies that can help us figure this out. This is tangential, but it seems odd to me that many of the same people who are opposed to GMOs on the grounds that “science may have missed something” are okay with legalizing pot until science clearly demonstrates harm. Note that I’m not directing that at you (I don’t think you said any…

I don't believe that's a fair comparison. Firstly, marijuana taken internally has a long tradition of use. GMO's not so much. Admittedly, modern strains of marijuana may pose greater concerns. Secondly, legalisation of recreational drugs is, I'd argue, only tangentially related to the harm they may cause by using them. Take alcohol as an example. The legalisation of recreational drugs is, I'd argue, more about a) per…

GMOs have been consumed as a primary food source daily by hundreds of millions of people per year with no known health risks, even after extensive study. Cannabis has been used for a while, but it hasn’t received the same level of study and concerns have been raised (e.g., this article). I’ve got to give this one to the GMOs.

> Secondly, legalisation of recreational drugs is, I'd argue, only tangentially related to the harm they may cause by using them. Take alcohol as an example. The legalisation of recreational drugs is, I'd argue, more about a) personal-sovereignty, and b) the harm caused by the war on drugs.

How does “personal sovereignty” explain supporting prohibitions against GMOs? The opposition to the war on drugs but seems plausible.

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#509

Post by nashashmi » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 5:06 AM UTC

nickdandakis wrote: post #309

nashashmi wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never understood this concept of detaching from work only to wake up the next day and having to face it. Why would you detach so much? Relaxing is overrated. It deprives you of powers you have developed or will develop, only to make you a more powerless person. And a powerless person can never and should never relax.

Do you also think you don't need to make your bed in the morning since you're gonna sleep in it later that day?

I don't make my bed in the morning. But when my bed happens to be made, it is so refreshing to just come at night and sleep soundly. Like a reset button was hit.

I get it now. Sort of.

But the problem doesn't go away.

Re: When Adolescents Give Up Pot, Their Cognition Quickly Improves

#510

Post by nashashmi » Thu, Nov 01, 2018, 5:10 AM UTC

warent wrote: post #217

nashashmi wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. ADHD is a spectrum. Often times it was/is misunderstood and its victims would feel isolated from the world. Marijuana would make that worse on certain vectors. It is not a silver bullet. It is a role of the dice. And the condition of the moment that you take it in decides the fate of the drug's effects on you. Could be good or bad.

I have diagnosed ADD/ADHD. Would hardly consider myself a "victim." It has pros and cons just like everything else in life. Personally I don't take medication and am totally sober. Mindfulness meditation helps tremendously

I meant in the context of a misunderstood person who nobody knows has ADHD and possesses behaviors that do not fit the norm, he is a victim of unjust social attitudes.