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SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

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Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#501

Post by nkrisc »

ryanlol wrote: post #432
nkrisc wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't at all get any sense from his letter that he wanted to help the homeless, but that as long as he didn't ever have to actually see or interact with people down on their luck, he'd be happy. If all the homeless in San Francisco mysteriously "disappeared" one day, would he care? That may not be a fair question as we can't truly answer it, but I'd wager "no."

Why does that matter? He didn't explicitly state that, is not expressing your sympathy towards the homeless reprehensible now?

Not necessarily, but when you reduce actual people to nothing more than a "problem" to be "solved" it doesn't reflect kindly on you.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#502

Post by Mz »

monkmartinez wrote: post #45
Afforess wrote: post #9

To play devil's advocate, he's right. He shouldn't have to see the pain, struggle, and despair of homeless - the city government should be providing affordable housing and shelters for the homeless. That it hasn't is a failure of the local government, and should be addressed. Much of the reason that affordable housing is out of reach of many in San Francisco is due to government regulation, not market capitalism. Ext…

This is a complex issue... but in my experience, most of the homeless are not looking for help to find jobs and/or contribute to society in manner that will lead them out of "homelessness." A lot of them prefer this "lifestyle"... we try very hard to help the people that want help. Most don't. Go talk to your local EMS/Fire department personnel and most of them will have similar stories. I know the homeless people in…

I am homeless. I have never spent a night in a shelter. I prefer sleeping in a tent. It is cleaner and more humane. The services aimed at helping the homeless are mostly pretty revolting. The free meals are lower quality than fast food. The emergency shelters have mold problems. And you get crowded in with other sick, poor, desperate people to have a shot at the dregs they are willing to provide you.

This is part of why I have this blog: http://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com/

Homeless people need the same things other people need: Work that works for them and other middle class solutions that are largely disappearing from an increasingly polarized America. But what they are offered is mostly contempt and really low quality options and services rooted in a broken, abusive, horrifying set of mental models. And then we are vilified for not being adequately grateful for the shit offered to us.

I don't want to be homeless. But, yeah, I prefer this to the vastly shittier alternatives available to me.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#503

Post by rodgerd »

dang wrote: post #436
rodgerd wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a public lynching. This is hysterical nonsense and makes you look deranged.

I think that's excessive. marknutter's comments were passionate and yes he was venting. But the key concept in what he wrote—"daily boost of self-righteousness"—is absolutely a thing, and unawareness of it makes all of this much worse.

Lynching is the process of murdering people, usually by torturing them to death. I could link you some pictures or accounts of actual public lynching victims if you'd like.

People telling using the same right of free speech the author exercised to tell the author that they come across as an awful human being might hurt the author's feelings, but it isn't even in the same ballpark as, say, being dragged into a theatre and shot to death by scores of people using low-calibre firearms so it lasts longer.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#504

Post by foldr »

discardorama wrote: post #482
foldr wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do the math, and you'll see how ridiculous is that. It's $4444 per person per month. Why is that ridiculous? They need to employ people to manage the program as well as run shelters, pay rents, etc. $4444 is not so high that it's obviously too much.

> They need to employ people to manage the program as well as run shelters, pay rents, etc. $4444 is not so high that it's obviously too much. Who will they pay rent to? The pier belongs to the City. That much money gets a homeless basically a cot in a large warehouse. How is that worth $4K/month? And which other city spends $50K/homeless person?

If you have a breakdown of the various expenditures showing that money is being wasted, then by all means post it. Otherwise, the amount really does not seem that high.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#505

Post by monknomo »

chei0aiV wrote: post #480
monknomo wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fire departments in most towns in America provide emergency medical services. 911 calls about health related things often result in a fire truck arriving, rather than an ambulance.

What?

I don't know what the history is, I'm sure it's complicated.

You've got hospital ambulances, private ambulances, city fire departments, county fire departments, volunteer fire departments and federal fire fighting organizations all potentially in the same place, all summonable by a 911 dispatcher. They all have EMT training and gear. Who shows up and how is it decided? Beats me.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#506

Post by chei0aiV »

monknomo wrote: post #505
chei0aiV wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What?

I don't know what the history is, I'm sure it's complicated. You've got hospital ambulances, private ambulances, city fire departments, county fire departments, volunteer fire departments and federal fire fighting organizations all potentially in the same place, all summonable by a 911 dispatcher. They all have EMT training and gear. Who shows up and how is it decided? Beats me.

Well, as long as whoever shows up has the required experience and equipment to solve the situation, great! I guess the fire fighting orgs have medical equipment and training too?

Sometimes human organisation is baffling if you are seeing it from a step further out but makes complete sense when viewed from the inside.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#507

Post by marknutter »

rodgerd wrote: post #503
dang wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's excessive. marknutter's comments were passionate and yes he was venting. But the key concept in what he wrote—"daily boost of self-righteousness"—is absolutely a thing, and unawareness of it makes all of this much worse.

Lynching is the process of murdering people, usually by torturing them to death. I could link you some pictures or accounts of actual public lynching victims if you'd like. People telling using the same right of free speech the author exercised to tell the author that they come across as an awful human being might hurt the author's feelings, but it isn't even in the same ballpark as, say, being dragged into a theatre…

Pedant much? It's a metaphor. And if you really want to get pedantic, what do you call it when someone gets harassed so brutally online that they end up committing suicide? Sure, they weren't "dragged into a theater and shot to death by scores of people using low-calibre firearms so it lasts longer" but the result is still the same.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#508

Post by marknutter »

mwnz wrote: post #499
marknutter wrote: post #240

This fucking sucks. I know Justin personally, and to see the vitriol being spewed forth at him makes my stomach churn. His blog post was clearly written out of frustration, and lacked nuance, but in no way does it justify the response it has received. None of these scathing articles or drive-by tweets are asking for clarification. Instead, his character is being assassinated as an extension of the growing fervor arou…

As a tech worker living in San Francisco, his 'open letter' infuriated me. If anything, it makes my life here more difficult, and reflects poorly on the industry I work in. Unintended consequence? Probably. But I will happily vent my frustration with his callousness, lack of tact and compassion, just as he vented his frustrations.

Then fucking ask to meet with him and tell him how you feel. Get his perspective. Find out if he meant what you think he meant or if he was just misunderstood. And if you're still angry then, let him have it face to face instead of behind some pseudonym on the internet.

Pray you never post anything that draws the ire of the mob, lest you become the whipping boy of dozens of nationally syndicated columnists and thousands of spineless social media bullies, some of which who threaten you actual, physical harm.

My guess is, if you're actually bold enough to meet him in person, you'll soften your position. If not, then good for you, at least you had the conviction to remain angry.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#509

Post by Practicality »

morganvachon wrote: post #285
Practicality wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does seems like anyone under 40 is now a millennial. The most recent clear definition I have heard is anyone born between 1980 and 2000. So anyone ~16 and under is a new generation, currently called Gen. Z, but they may get another name soon. It does seem like the media is absorbing Gen X into millennials now for some reason. I don't know why. Baby Boomers vs everyone else?

> So anyone ~16 and under is a new generation, currently called Gen. Z Wait, I thought those were "digital natives", i.e. never having known life without ubiquitous computers/tablets/cellphones? I've mostly heard the progression as Gen X (born in the 70s), then Gen Y (born in the 80s). After Gen Y it's supposed to be Millennials (born in the 90s/coming of age in the 00s), then Digital Natives (aforementioned "raised…

Gen Y and Millennials are the same thing. Digital Natives is another name for Gen Z.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#510

Post by iofj »

foldr wrote: post #325
emblem21 wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...or why should I work so hard to pay SF rent when I can be homeless and get free housing?

Obviously because you'd rather have the housing that you could obtain by working and paying rent, which would be better.

Since most workers in San Francisco don't work in tech, that's not true. At least not if you want to live in San Francisco. The choice is a tent or a 2 hour commute, which may cost to much given service worker's pay.

The only solution is way more housing.

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