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This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

okwu.edu

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Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#501

Post by CaptSpify »

jazzyk wrote: post #412
CaptSpify wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to a similar school (not affiliated with OKWU), and had a very similar experience. I tried asking certain questions which were...not encouraged. Additionally, we had: Bible-majors for men, and Christian-Education Studies for women. I saw many women who were failed essentially because they were a woman and "women shouldn't be pastors, they should be Sunday-School teachers". The education was much more about "li…

If I understand correctly, they clearly state their religious affiliation. They are free to "teach" whatever they want. And you are free to get your education somewhere else.

Oh, I totally agree, and I did! But there is a pretty large level of hypocrisy in stating that they don't want to allow "safe-spaces", while creating their own "safe-spaces" under a different name.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#502

Post by warfangle »

Retric wrote: post #484
aggieben wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a stark difference between a free and voluntary association of like-minded people and a so-called "safe space", which uses a pretext of "victimization" to capriciously thought control others who simply committed the offense of disagreeing or criticizing. If you hate Christianity, why would you go to this school? If you aren't willing to follow behavioral rules, why would you go to this school? If you think ph…

Collage is often not a free choice for many students. Parent or guardians are likely to pick such places and students who 'wake up to reality' or 'lose faith' are a long way from voluntary association. Now if you want to argue about how narrow blinkers need to be before a horse is blind then your just missing the point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blinkers_(horse_tack)

You're right; a collage is a piece of art made of pieces of other art, rearranged.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#503

Post by declan »

lghh wrote: post #199

I have a friend who attended OKWU a few years ago. She shared this piece on Facebook in approval. From what I know from her education there, this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians. If you say anything negative about the religion or its teachings, you are kicked out. If you don't follow its rules, you are kicked out. If you drink, smoke, have premarital sex, are lgbtq, don't follow their strict ethics…

Let's assume for the moment that everything you say above in criticism of OKWU is correct.

The difference is that OKWU markets itself as a Christian university; its stated vision is "to provide a thorough and sound education within a Christian philosophy of life" and education "in the light of Christian principles." Its student handbook clearly lists tobacco, drugs, alcohol, porn, and premarital sex as unacceptable.

It should not be any surprise that if you are found to be engaging in any of those activities--which you and I may think are fine, but OKWU clearly does not--you will be disciplined and perhaps even kicked out. OKWU could not be more clear on this point.

In contrast, Yale and many other universities claim to embrace free expression. Yale informs incoming students: "Yale’s commitment to freedom of expression means that when you agree to matriculate, you join a community where “the provocative, the disturbing, and the unorthodox” must be tolerated. When you encounter people who think differently than you do, you will be expected to honor their free expression, even when what they have to say seems wrong or offensive to you." http://yalecollege.yale.edu/new-students/class-2019/academic...

So OKWU may be many things, but it is not hypocritical. If Yale and these other schools do not live up to their own freedom of expression promises, they are.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#504

Post by stefantalpalaru »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #362
stefantalpalaru wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my world their opinions get no respect at all. You should try separating the opinion from the man and analyze the former without taking the shortcut of appealing to the authority of the latter.

So you don't agree that the process by which someone reaches a moral position is open to question? The simpler argument is that Dr Piper is really in no position to act like anyone's external conscience. He has no basis whatsoever to claim that he's either qualified or competent to act in that role. Now, clearly he believes otherwise. That's very much his prerogative. It's everyone else's prerogative to decide whethe…

> So you don't agree that the process by which someone reaches a moral position is open to question?

Only if you agree that it has nothing to do with the intrinsic value of the proposed ideas.

> "You're acting like a child and you shouldn't feel the way you do about the things I say" is neither an open position nor an honest one.

Nor is it the position of the author. When somebody tells you to grow up, they are not telling you how to feel, but how to act based on those feelings.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#505

Post by vonmoltke »

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #470
forrestthewoods wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The safe space and microaggression movement is primarily a left/liberal/progressive movement. That is objective.

I don't think you understand what a liberal is.

I don't think the American left understands what a liberal is anymore.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#507

Post by darkr »

slavik81 wrote: post #492
roosterjm2k2 wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not prejudice to point out absurdity. Religion is simply that... and while there may be some intelligent people, I would say that anyone who believes in supernatural sky beings that run everything and watch every move and every thought of every human is not smart. I think smart is the application of intelligence, and while intelligent, the religious are not "smart" in that area.

By that standard, basically nobody is smart because practically every person is irrational about something. I mean, I try not to be, but let's be honest—I wouldn't know if I was.

Rationality (or at least the application of) is a Float, not a Boolean. Humans are just builtevolved that way I guess. Though; imagine a human being that was completely rational. He would be thoroughly humourless and unappetising. I imagine he'd call himself Richard Dawkins or something ridiculous like that.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#508

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

jonknee wrote: post #326
darkerside wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be great if the top comment were about the content of the article instead of the character of the institution.

I found it very related to the content of the article. Even the title--the President of Oklahoma Wesleyan University doesn't realize that he really is running a day care for the college aged children of Christian parents. My brother went to a similar school and it's an absolute joke (down to needing to be signed out to leave campus!).

Cue Alanis...

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#509

Post by wan23 »

aggieben wrote: post #411
lghh wrote: post #199

I have a friend who attended OKWU a few years ago. She shared this piece on Facebook in approval. From what I know from her education there, this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians. If you say anything negative about the religion or its teachings, you are kicked out. If you don't follow its rules, you are kicked out. If you drink, smoke, have premarital sex, are lgbtq, don't follow their strict ethics…

There's a stark difference between a free and voluntary association of like-minded people and a so-called "safe space", which uses a pretext of "victimization" to capriciously thought control others who simply committed the offense of disagreeing or criticizing. If you hate Christianity, why would you go to this school? If you aren't willing to follow behavioral rules, why would you go to this school? If you think ph…

The idea of a safe space is very much similar to the way a christian university might work. There are clubs and groups on campus that declare that the room in which they operate, while they are in session, as a place where they are free to be themselves. Like if for example, there were a meeting of comic book lovers and someone comes in and says "maybe you guys should get out more" they might ask that person to leave. And it also shouldn't be a giant leap to see why they might want to get people to stop saying that to them wherever they happen to be, and so they might call for their safe space to be expanded. The problem is that while it's perfectly fine to have small safe spaces in which everyone agrees, if you try to expand them around other people they might feel like their rights are being trampled upon.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#510

Post by wpietri »

philh wrote: post #364
wpietri wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. As a white guy, I get that our current loss of privilege feels like a loss. Change is always uncomfortable, so I can see why people would be inclined to push back. And I get that we all learned to express privilege partly through behaviors that conveniently just happen to maintain privilege (behaviors like those racist jokes). But still, it's frustrating how many people who supposedly pride themselves on their…

People aren't just scared of being forbidden from making racist jokes. People are scared of being forbidden to express opinions. Like, here's someone who was fired for saying someone else shouldn't have been fired: http://www.gamerevolution.com/manifesto/turtle-rock-communit... And it makes me pretty uncomfortable when people express "fear of being attacked for doing something that's okay", and other people turn that…

My problem with this line of argument is that people who aren't well-off straight white guys like myself are already scared of expressing opinions. They have been for centuries. The only thing that has changed is that people with privilege, on rare occasion, can no longer say certain things without any consequence.

As Popehat writes, freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. There's an important question of what consequences should or can legitimately flow from speech. But when this "people shouldn't be scared to express opinions" line gets trotted out only to defend white guys, it's a tell. The nominal principle might be freedom of speech, but if the only people defended are the privileged, the actual principle is maintenance of societal privilege.

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