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Varoufakis reveals cloak and dagger 'Plan B' for Greece, awaits treason charges

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: Varoufakis reveals cloak and dagger 'Plan B' for Greece, awaits treason charges

#51

Post by rurban »

tptacek wrote: post #18

Here's FT's (much better) reporting: http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/2a0a1d94-3201-11e5-8873-775ba... (The headline is "Syriza’s covert plot during crisis talks to return to drachma" if you want to Google it because of the registration wall).

"Much better" is very questionable in this context. It's a aggressive right-winger view point, which again does everything to denounce Syriza as left-wing radicals and supporters, which is explicitly against Syriza's own point of view. Which is a center-left EU-friendly party, holding up to Keynesian principles.

And they call it "plot", where it was a normal grexit plan. It was very similar to the EU troika "plot"/plan for their grexit scenario, throwing them out of the Eurozone. And the Troika actually performed parts of their "evil" plan. Draghi illegally stopped ECB support to blackmail them. Did FT report this as such?

Re: Varoufakis reveals cloak and dagger 'Plan B' for Greece, awaits treason charges

#52

Post by templl »

JacobAldridge wrote: post #2

Frankly, I would think it irresponsible if the Greek government did not have a Plan B in place - be it parallel payments or a return to the Drachma. If (when?) it becomes necessary to do so, such a plan would need to be implemented with haste - they won't have the luxury of telling the markets "we'll be doing this in 3 months, once we work out the details".

Also everyone concerned knew that plan-b would likley involve a coup on the central bank. And Varoufakis talked about the rest in his blog [0].

[0] http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2014/02/15/bitcoin-a-flawed-curren...

Re: Varoufakis reveals cloak and dagger 'Plan B' for Greece, awaits treason charges

#53

Post by Tomte »

Mithaldu wrote: post #48
Tomte wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you believe Varoufakis. It may be Schäuble's game plan, I cannot know about it, but telling all about it to Varoufakis? That's akin to James Bond's opponents always disclosing their secret master plan just before they think they're going to kill Bond. Real world doesn't work like that. I simply find it implausible. Why should Schäuble admit to all that openly in a discussion with him? What good would it do? Nothin…

You're making the assumption that Schäuble is a reasonable man, which he's proven amply not to be.

Character assassination won't make you look any better.

Re: Varoufakis reveals cloak and dagger 'Plan B' for Greece, awaits treason charges

#54

Post by Mithaldu »

Tomte wrote: post #53
Mithaldu wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making the assumption that Schäuble is a reasonable man, which he's proven amply not to be.

Character assassination won't make you look any better.

Your point is: The things Varoufakis claims Schäuble said and did would not have been said or done by a reasonable person.

To that i am pointing out that Schäuble has in the past said and done many things that were entirely unreasonable, even if some may have been meant well.

Re: Varoufakis reveals cloak and dagger 'Plan B' for Greece, awaits treason charges

#55

Post by anonbanker »

tptacek wrote: post #14
JacobAldridge wrote: post #2

Frankly, I would think it irresponsible if the Greek government did not have a Plan B in place - be it parallel payments or a return to the Drachma. If (when?) it becomes necessary to do so, such a plan would need to be implemented with haste - they won't have the luxury of telling the markets "we'll be doing this in 3 months, once we work out the details".

Plan B in this case case seems to have been for the currently dominant political party to seize the Greek treasury, arrest the leader of the Greek central bank, and use their access to design by fiat, without parliament, a whole new financial system for the country. This seems approximately akin to, say, Ted Cruz being elected next year, another financial crisis happening shortly thereafter, and Cruz (a) arresting Ja…

This is in no way intended to detract from your knowledge, but reading this reminds me a lot of 2006 when robert love (of linux kernel/GNOME fame) started getting into commentary on keynesian economics on his blog, eventually heavily lauding Ben Bernanke as the savior of the market post-greenspan, and having to eat his words (and delete his posts!) shortly thereafter.

Re: Varoufakis reveals cloak and dagger 'Plan B' for Greece, awaits treason charges

#56

Post by vixen99 »

asgard1024 wrote: post #16

It's sad to see them (Varoufakis/Tsipras) being crucified for this. Ironically, it was the Eurozone "leadership" that used threat of Grexit in negotiations, by not accepting any compromise. It only shows they have the "punish someone" mentality, at the cost of Eurozone's future. I guess that's politics, damned if you do, damned if you don't. Couple days ago, Tsipras was criticized for not having plan B.

You mean he's being criticized. Crucified is the disgusting fate meted out to some people in Syria and Irak. Using it as a metaphor here is maybe like hitting a note fortissimo when it's marked forte or even mezzo forte.

Re: Varoufakis reveals cloak and dagger 'Plan B' for Greece, awaits treason charges

#58

Post by Zigurd »

rurban wrote: post #51
tptacek wrote: post #18

Here's FT's (much better) reporting: http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/2a0a1d94-3201-11e5-8873-775ba... (The headline is "Syriza’s covert plot during crisis talks to return to drachma" if you want to Google it because of the registration wall).

"Much better" is very questionable in this context. It's a aggressive right-winger view point, which again does everything to denounce Syriza as left-wing radicals and supporters, which is explicitly against Syriza's own point of view. Which is a center-left EU-friendly party, holding up to Keynesian principles. And they call it "plot", where it was a normal grexit plan. It was very similar to the EU troika "plot"/pl…

Indeed one thing I find shocking is the assumption, even among very smart people, that Syriza is too far left. Too left for what? They are reacting as if it were a Soviet-aligned Communist party with a plan to cancel elections.

This kind of narrow "crush anything that isn't neoliberal capitalism" paranoia is going to make the the crunch even more painful when disemployment really comes into play.

Re: Varoufakis reveals cloak and dagger 'Plan B' for Greece, awaits treason charges

#59

Post by tptacek »

Zigurd wrote: post #58
rurban wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Much better" is very questionable in this context. It's a aggressive right-winger view point, which again does everything to denounce Syriza as left-wing radicals and supporters, which is explicitly against Syriza's own point of view. Which is a center-left EU-friendly party, holding up to Keynesian principles. And they call it "plot", where it was a normal grexit plan. It was very similar to the EU troika "plot"/pl…

Indeed one thing I find shocking is the assumption, even among very smart people, that Syriza is too far left. Too left for what? They are reacting as if it were a Soviet-aligned Communist party with a plan to cancel elections. This kind of narrow "crush anything that isn't neoliberal capitalism" paranoia is going to make the the crunch even more painful when disemployment really comes into play.

Well, part of their plan was to raise 10-20bn from Russia to prop up their economy, and the whole plan was extralegal, so I'm not sure that's too far off the mark.

Re: Varoufakis reveals cloak and dagger 'Plan B' for Greece, awaits treason charges

#60

Post by pvg »

tptacek wrote: post #18

Here's FT's (much better) reporting: http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/2a0a1d94-3201-11e5-8873-775ba... (The headline is "Syriza’s covert plot during crisis talks to return to drachma" if you want to Google it because of the registration wall).

That's FT's reporting on a related but different thing. FT's reporting on what Varoufakis said is almost identical.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d44a92c0-3454-11e5-bdbb-35e55cbae1...

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