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Why “Whiplash” Won an Oscar for Best Editing

williamdickersonfilmmaker.com

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Re: Why “Whiplash” Won an Oscar for Best Editing

#51
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember reading a review/summary/explanation of Primer that was written up--by necessity--in LaTeX.

remember this chart showing the timeline complexity of primer as well ? http://i2.wp.com/bitcast-a-sm.bitgravity.com/slashfilm/wp/wp...

xkcd's chart for Primer feels just as helpful:

https://xkcd.com/657/

Re: Why “Whiplash” Won an Oscar for Best Editing

#52
post #39
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sneakers is wildly entertaining on many levels. Plus it was an early hacker movie which was cool. Primer is trippy, one of those rare movies where you will instantly watch it again after the first viewing. Then you'll google the plot and read for an hour and watch it a third time in the same day. It works though.

Primer is the best film featuring time travel that I've ever seen. And yes, the plot is highly convoluted, and there is virtually no explanation. Also, it was filmed on a very low budget, and some of the key dialog is hard to understand.

Along similar lines to Primer (both in terms of story and production), you might enjoy the film Coherence...

Re: Why “Whiplash” Won an Oscar for Best Editing

#53
post #32
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It set up a false dichotomy between being abusive to students in order to achieve excellence and softballing them with praise so they'll never work hard. Most people I've talked to bought into this dichotomy after watching this movie, thinking that there is some kind of tradeoff between greatness and abusiveness. The movie legitimizes this false dichotomy, not by condoning the abuse, but by implying that it is the un…

While you are right it is a false dichotomy. It isn't completely made up either. Greatness can (often) be achieved through abusively pushing someone to their limits... Like most elite sports athletes... Am I way off base thinking this?

Daniel Kahneman (from his autobiography, but he tells the same story in Thinking, Fast And Slow):

> I had the most satisfying Eureka experience of my career while attempting to teach flight instructors that praise is more effective than punishment for promoting skill-learning. When I had finished my enthusiastic speech, one of the most seasoned instructors in the audience raised his hand and made his own short speech, which began by conceding that positive reinforcement might be good for the birds, but went on to deny that it was optimal for flight cadets. He said, “On many occasions I have praised flight cadets for clean execution of some aerobatic maneuver, and in general when they try it again, they do worse. On the other hand, I have often screamed at cadets for bad execution, and in general they do better the next time. So please don’t tell us that reinforcement works and punishment does not, because the opposite is the case.” This was a joyous moment, in which I understood an important truth about the world: because we tend to reward others when they do well and punish them when they do badly, and because there is regression to the mean, it is part of the human condition that we are statistically punished for rewarding others and rewarded for punishing them. I immediately arranged a demonstration in which each participant tossed two coins at a target behind his back, without any feedback. We measured the distances from the target and could see that those who had done best the first time had mostly deteriorated on their second try, and vice versa. But I knew that this demonstration would not undo the effects of lifelong exposure to a perverse contingency.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean

Re: Why “Whiplash” Won an Oscar for Best Editing

#54
post #38

I thoroughly despised this movie. To me it felt like a celebration of a sadistic abuser mind-raping a kid, and never being punished for it. No music teacher I know would have gotten away with what Fletcher did without going to jail. This is not how you teach jazz. This is not how you teach anything.

> I thoroughly despised this movie. You don't have to like movies for them to have been good! You could despise a character while still thinking the movie was good for making you despise the character. That's an art. If they have a strong emotional impact on you, they've "worked" (other than if they're just crap) because you talk about them, digest them and question their messages. A ton of great movies explore the d…

However, most (good) movies do have a lingering message, a thesis point the filmmaker is trying to make about people or the world. What do you think the message was in this movie, and do you agree with it?

Re: Why “Whiplash” Won an Oscar for Best Editing

#55
post #38

I thoroughly despised this movie. To me it felt like a celebration of a sadistic abuser mind-raping a kid, and never being punished for it. No music teacher I know would have gotten away with what Fletcher did without going to jail. This is not how you teach jazz. This is not how you teach anything.

> I thoroughly despised this movie. You don't have to like movies for them to have been good! You could despise a character while still thinking the movie was good for making you despise the character. That's an art. If they have a strong emotional impact on you, they've "worked" (other than if they're just crap) because you talk about them, digest them and question their messages. A ton of great movies explore the d…

Just because a movie evokes a strong emotional impact doesn't make it good. A strong emotional response can be highly negative as well.

If the movie is made to create a negative emotional response then I suppose one can say it succeeded in doing so, but it still doesn't make it good to the people who view it negatively.

Re: Why “Whiplash” Won an Oscar for Best Editing

#56
post #51
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

remember this chart showing the timeline complexity of primer as well ? http://i2.wp.com/bitcast-a-sm.bitgravity.com/slashfilm/wp/wp...

xkcd's chart for Primer feels just as helpful: https://xkcd.com/657/

wow, he nailed it again :)

Re: Why “Whiplash” Won an Oscar for Best Editing

#57
post #47

This is really trying to find meaning where there is none. "Andrew's life didn't need editing", wtf. It's just a way to introduce the main character and his nemesis, that's all there is to it. The reason it is oscar-worthy is : drums are by definition repetitive, a character playing drums is mostly static, there are no real dialogs possible while drums are being played, and the movie overcame all these obstacles.

One of the problems is that the article ascribes a lot of decisions to the editor that were actually made by the writer or the director. Which is weird, because something can't be an editing decision if it had to be shot a certain way, because editing comes all the way at the end after everything's been shot.

Of course, writing about film is hard, because it's such a collaborative medium. It's hard to attribute a decision to a single person, when in actuality it was probably hinted at in the script, then improved from the director talking to the actor, or the DP suggesting an experimental camera angle, or the editor finding an accidental shot that just happens to work for the scene.

So let's look at whether some of these decisions were born in "writer," "director", or "editor" land. I'll pretend that Whiplash wasn't written and directed by the same guy.

  However, after rushing to get to the studio, he 
  realizes that he is early — by 3 hours. He was 
  manipulated, leading him, and us, to question: 
  should he trust Fletcher’s version of “time?”
This series of cause-and-effect events is the story, which is the purview of the writer.

  Andrew re-enters the rehearsal space in slow-motion.
  He gets behind the drums, also shot in slow-motion,
  until Fletcher re-enters the room, which resets the
  film into normal motion. 
Again, if you had to shoot it in slomo, it wasn't the editor's decision. It's hard to say if this would come from writing or directing. The script could say "he approaches the bench in slow motion," or it could say "he approaches the bench" and the director intuits that the film should ratchet up the tension.

  It’s interesting to note that while his drumming is off, 
  the editor chooses to place cuts of Andrew placing 
  band-aids on his hand that are in perfect rhythm with 
  the timing of the ride cymbal –-
This does sound like an editing decision. But again, the script could easily say "He band-aids his hand in rhythm with the cymbals."

If you want to read more about some actual decisions an editor goes through, I highly recomment In The Blink Of An Eye, written by sound and film editor Walter Murch. Tony Zhou's Vimeo series Every Frame A Painting is great too, although it focuses more on directing and cinematography.

Re: Why “Whiplash” Won an Oscar for Best Editing

#58
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A film about sadistic behaviour isn't necessarily a celebration of it.

It set up a false dichotomy between being abusive to students in order to achieve excellence and softballing them with praise so they'll never work hard. Most people I've talked to bought into this dichotomy after watching this movie, thinking that there is some kind of tradeoff between greatness and abusiveness. The movie legitimizes this false dichotomy, not by condoning the abuse, but by implying that it is the un…

Exactly (what sofal said).

Re: Why “Whiplash” Won an Oscar for Best Editing

#59

I thoroughly despised this movie. To me it felt like a celebration of a sadistic abuser mind-raping a kid, and never being punished for it. No music teacher I know would have gotten away with what Fletcher did without going to jail. This is not how you teach jazz. This is not how you teach anything.

You hated it because it had a mean character in it? Your prerogative, I suppose. I thought it was a fantastic movie, despite not liking every person in it.

I hated it because its message was perverted. The "mean" character was rewarded -- not punished -- for his most sadistic act (the last 10 minutes of the movie), and as sofal has pointed out here, audiences seemed to have taken his behavior as the norm when pushing students to greatness. If the movie had ever implied that greatness can be achieved without abuse (which it can), I'd have had no problem with it.
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