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Office of Personnel Management Says Hackers Got Data of Millions of Individuals

nytimes.com

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Re: Office of Personnel Management Says Hackers Got Data of Millions of Individuals

#51

Post by metaobject »

itistoday2 wrote: post #44
metaobject wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was listening to the Senate hearing on Wednesday where they were asking the FBI director questions about this issue. They were talking about how they need to include the tech community in the conversation about how to best solve the problem of making sure the govt can access encrypted messages, etc. when they're conducting an investigation. Senator McCain started asking questions about how it was possible to mainta…

Well, "But, ISIS!" is not a real argument, that should be clear. Backdoors make the situation worse, not better. We'll still have ISIS, we'll be even less secure, and we'll have lost whatever is left of our right to privacy. Pretty much a lose-lose for everyone involved (except maybe ISIS). The answer to "But, ISIS!" is not backdoors, it's foreign policy.

Yeah, he sounded very out of touch and demonstrated very little understanding of the implications of having a government backdoor.

Re: Office of Personnel Management Says Hackers Got Data of Millions of Individuals

#52

Post by mpyne »

stephengillie wrote: post #27
codesilverback wrote: post #17

So did anyone get fired?

A loyal employee that made a mistake is still a valuable employee. We should focus on prevention and obviation (you can't steal what isn't there) over severe punishments.

This wasn't just a single employee that made a single mistake.

The Navy is happy to fire commanding officers for calling out sailors who show up late for physical training because it's embarrassing to the sailor, and yet it seems like we can't get anything close to that kind of accountability elsewhere.

It's not so much that Archuleta 'let this happen' (since I guarantee they would be hacked anyways), but the defensive efforts prior to this happening were even worse than you'd expect for government, and the response efforts since have almost been worse!

Re: Office of Personnel Management Says Hackers Got Data of Millions of Individuals

#53

Post by mpyne »

irishcoffee wrote: post #50
mpyne wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Network security is not NSA's job. Nor is information security. Communications security is, but only for "national security information" (i.e. classified) and military communications. Defense against "cyber attack" isn't even NSA's job, and where NSA participates in such endeavors that's on .mil, not .gov DHS does have responsibility for cyber security on .gov however. But what is DHS supposed to do if OPM decides to…

> NSA might somehow have caught this despite everything I mentioned if they were engaged in better "monitoring operations" on other government networks and international communications relays... is that really what you want? I can think of a few million people who might have, yeah.

Don't get me wrong, I'd sign up for it if the alternative is 20+ million records of private data in the hands of an unfriendly state. But then I don't think that NSA is Literally Satan™ either.

Re: Office of Personnel Management Says Hackers Got Data of Millions of Individuals

#54

Post by hdevalence »

mpyne wrote: post #47
murbard2 wrote: post #26

And yet, tomorrow they'll have no qualms making the case that, of course, the government can securely keep backdoor keys to investigate encrypted communications.

Have the secret backdoor keys for Dual EC DRBG leaked yet? Nuclear launch codes and authenticators? Analogies are useful but don't get carried away, especially when talking about something as broad as "the government" (as if it were one singular thing). The fact that a BLM federal officer lost his firearm doesn't instantly mean that all of our Tomahawk cruise missiles are next to be stolen.

Why do we think they haven't been stolen? Why do we think that the OPM was the first or the biggest or the most valuable attack, and not just the biggest one that happened to be noticed?

The fact that a BLM officer lost his firearm doesn't instantly mean that all the cruise missiles are next, but yes, the fact that the USG is unable to maintain sensitive records of twenty million cleared personnel does say something about their ability to keep secret information safe.

Re: Office of Personnel Management Says Hackers Got Data of Millions of Individuals

#55

Post by spoiledtechie »

cinquemb wrote: post #45
spoiledtechie wrote: post #40

I would like to ask a question, but its real. How many of you yes and no, would be willing to go to war knowing that China is making a record of every single interesting person in the United States? Would you physically be willing to go to war over that fact? They are literally profiling us and it seems like the average US citizen gives 2 shits.

Ha, I guess they can join the team of the tech companies and other government agencies around the world doing the same. All of which is going to be increasingly available to the public. The naked babies uploaded by their parents and parents friends today will be very familiar with the way the world will be, for it will all they would have known on some personal level beyond the grandparents of that time ranting on ho…

Your response was out of left field. What was the point you were trying to make?

Re: Office of Personnel Management Says Hackers Got Data of Millions of Individuals

#56

Post by Lx1oG-AWb6h_ZG0 »

mpyne wrote: post #47
murbard2 wrote: post #26

And yet, tomorrow they'll have no qualms making the case that, of course, the government can securely keep backdoor keys to investigate encrypted communications.

Have the secret backdoor keys for Dual EC DRBG leaked yet? Nuclear launch codes and authenticators? Analogies are useful but don't get carried away, especially when talking about something as broad as "the government" (as if it were one singular thing). The fact that a BLM federal officer lost his firearm doesn't instantly mean that all of our Tomahawk cruise missiles are next to be stolen.

What the hell are you on about?

The closest thing to the proposed encryption backdoor is the clipper chip proposal of the 90s, and that did have severe vulnerabilities that the authors completely overlooked.

And I'd recommend you watch John Oliver's segment about nuclear launch codes to recalibrate your trust in those officials. We've come scarily close to Armageddon multiple times over the last few decades, which was prevented only by sheer dumb luck. Just because it's the scariest thing known to man doesn't mean the people responsible for it aren't incompetent.

Re: Office of Personnel Management Says Hackers Got Data of Millions of Individuals

#57

Post by MichaelCrawford »

engi_nerd wrote: post #46
MichaelCrawford wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a wooden head.

...No need to be insulting and condescending. I understand that you were making a joke. But the fact is, your joke example was poorly chosen.

I can see your point.

However a problem we really do have is that we have lost our expertise. The COTS mandate lead to less demand for the kinds of engineers who could have prevented this breach.

My friend Murray Sims is a naval civil service coder. He rang me up once to beg me to work for the navy:

"People are dying because of software bugs."

Id love to but I get a little loopy sometimes so have no hope of getting a clearance, instead I write technical articles.

http://www.warplife.com/tips/

Re: Office of Personnel Management Says Hackers Got Data of Millions of Individuals

#58

Post by engi_nerd »

MichaelCrawford wrote: post #57
engi_nerd wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...No need to be insulting and condescending. I understand that you were making a joke. But the fact is, your joke example was poorly chosen.

I can see your point. However a problem we really do have is that we have lost our expertise. The COTS mandate lead to less demand for the kinds of engineers who could have prevented this breach. My friend Murray Sims is a naval civil service coder. He rang me up once to beg me to work for the navy: "People are dying because of software bugs." Id love to but I get a little loopy sometimes so have no hope of getting a…

I admit I was a little saddened to be insulted by someone whose work I admire.

Your friend definitely has a point. People are dying because of software bugs. And process bugs. And outdated hardware.

I agree with you that we have lost our expertise. I think the defense industry in general has a demographics problem. There's a lot of old guys who are about to retire. A lot of young, inexperienced people. And not enough of the mid-career engineers.

Re: Office of Personnel Management Says Hackers Got Data of Millions of Individuals

#59

Post by comrade1 »

mpyne wrote: post #48
comrade1 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's quite a bit of u.s. government on amazon cloud. Using a cloud service doesn't magically give you better security. This is more an indication of the NSA focusing too strongly on offensive/monitoring operations and not on information security, which is their job as well.

Network security is not NSA's job. Nor is information security. Communications security is, but only for "national security information" (i.e. classified) and military communications. Defense against "cyber attack" isn't even NSA's job, and where NSA participates in such endeavors that's on .mil, not .gov DHS does have responsibility for cyber security on .gov however. But what is DHS supposed to do if OPM decides to…

It's part of their information assurance program. https://www.nsa.gov/ia/index.shtml

Re: Office of Personnel Management Says Hackers Got Data of Millions of Individuals

#60

Post by comrade1 »

arh68 wrote: post #29
comrade1 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's quite a bit of u.s. government on amazon cloud. Using a cloud service doesn't magically give you better security. This is more an indication of the NSA focusing too strongly on offensive/monitoring operations and not on information security, which is their job as well.

> information security, which is their job as well. Is that really their job? It seems there might be a dozen other agencies responsible, ones less interested in foreign computer networks. Is that DISA's bailiwick? Perhaps NIST? Homeland Security? et cetera

https://www.nsa.gov/ia/index.shtml

Information assurance. Products and services for government and businesses.

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