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Gluten intolerance may really be immune dysfunction

nytimes.com

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Re: Gluten intolerance may really be immune dysfunction

#51

Post by harryjo »

MrFoof wrote: post #42

Interesting story. I had a friend that didn't have celiac disease, but genuinely had some form of gluten intolerance. It mostly just caused her terrible cramps. For about six years, doctors couldn't figure out what was causing it, so she had changed her diet to be nearly carb-free, and went on with her life. Problem? Hint: she liked camping. Ending up being a parasite she likely caught on a camping trip, which also b…

> osteopath which ended up making the discovery.

> PCP prescribed a 4-week regimen of heavy meds to kill off the parasites and fungal infection

nice teamwork!

Re: Gluten intolerance may really be immune dysfunction

#52

Post by harryjo »

maxerickson wrote: post #30
nextstep wrote: post #12

Here is an alternative theory that tries to explain why people in the United States don't tolerate wheat very well: http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/real-reason-for-toxic...

Be sure to dig up the USDA source document and observe on page 3 that glyphosate is not applied to a majority of wheat acres: http://www.nass.usda.gov/Surveys/Guide_to_NASS_Surveys/Chemi...

glyphosate is on 45% of acres, so approximately half of the wheat you eat.

Re: Gluten intolerance may really be immune dysfunction

#53

Post by maxerickson »

harryjo wrote: post #52
maxerickson wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be sure to dig up the USDA source document and observe on page 3 that glyphosate is not applied to a majority of wheat acres: http://www.nass.usda.gov/Surveys/Guide_to_NASS_Surveys/Chemi...

glyphosate is on 45% of acres, so approximately half of the wheat you eat.

There are 3 types of wheat shown in the table, glyphosate is only applied to 45% of the acres for one of them (Durum).

Durum is only a small fraction of wheat grown in the US:

Durum wheat, accounting for 3-5 percent of total production

http://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/crops/wheat/background.aspx

So, no, it is not applied to nearly half of the wheat that is grown.

There's also not a whole lot of evidence that it is widely applied to the mature plants prior to harvest.

edit: This is poor phrasing: "only applied to 45% of the acres for one of them". The table does not claim to be comprehensive. So a better statement would say something like: the table only lists glyphosate being applied to 45% of one of the types.

Re: Gluten intolerance may really be immune dysfunction

#54

Post by brerlapn »

mattmanser wrote: post #26
gregwebs wrote: post #22

Why is an opinion piece about a nutrition topic with 1 citation worthy of discussion on Hacker News? Here is an article with citations and discussion of modern research and patient experience that comes to a different conclusion: http://chriskresser.com/3-reasons-gluten-intolerance-may-be-... I won't bother submitting it to Hacker News since it doesn't have the official NYTimes scientific stamp of approval.

Chris Kresser, M.S., L.Ac is a globally recognized leader in the fields of ancestral health, Paleo nutrition, and functional and integrative medicine Yeah... Really scientific, unbiased, peer reviewed, modern research. Not a snake oil salesman at all. Also any article in the format "X reasons [thing] is more harmful than [other thing]" can generally be laughed at.

TFA clearly doesn't support your re-written straw man headline, and by comparison:

- Kresser: 21 citations to "scientific, unbiased, peer reviewed, modern research"

- NYT OpEd guest writer: naked unsupported assertion that "most of these assertions [about gluten], however, are contradicted by significant evidence" providing no references or scientific discussion

Which one is snake oil again? More ironic, the Kresser article does talk about gluten as an auto-immune trigger, making your dismissal seem even more knee-jerk. There are people doing serious work on nutrition, but you won't have much luck finding them in the NYT, much less the OpEd section.

Re: Gluten intolerance may really be immune dysfunction

#55

Post by dangero »

Frondo wrote: post #49
dangero wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know you don't have celiac disease? Sounds similar to my experience and I do have celiac disease.

I don't know. I never had any reason to think I did. I would have described my quality of life as very good before I stopped eating wheat--just better now. I did just look over a couple of lists of symptoms for celiac disease, and the only ones (fatigue and joint pain) that I could relate to, even in a small way, would be on the adult symptoms checklist--none of the childhood symptoms fit me in any way. But of those…

I think this is a common misconception. People have varying symptoms, but it's important to remember that those are symptoms and may not equate the the damage done to your system.

I was like you re:symptoms, but instead of going gluten free, I got an allergy panel done and celiac disease came back. I was actually still kind of disbelieving since my symptoms seemed light, so I followed it up with a stomach biopsy to confirm and I discovered I do have it.

Re: Gluten intolerance may really be immune dysfunction

#56

Post by Frondo »

dangero wrote: post #55
Frondo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. I never had any reason to think I did. I would have described my quality of life as very good before I stopped eating wheat--just better now. I did just look over a couple of lists of symptoms for celiac disease, and the only ones (fatigue and joint pain) that I could relate to, even in a small way, would be on the adult symptoms checklist--none of the childhood symptoms fit me in any way. But of those…

I think this is a common misconception. People have varying symptoms, but it's important to remember that those are symptoms and may not equate the the damage done to your system. I was like you re:symptoms, but instead of going gluten free, I got an allergy panel done and celiac disease came back. I was actually still kind of disbelieving since my symptoms seemed light, so I followed it up with a stomach biopsy to c…

See, I wouldn't have even thought to seek out medical advice, I literally didn't think there was anything wrong except getting old.

The person who told me to cut wheat down wasn't a doctor nor a nutritionist, and the advice kind of came out of nowhere (not related to me complaining about my aching knee or anything).

I likely won't get tested at this point, because it sounds invasive, and I am (as before) happy with my quality of life, but you do raise an interesting point.

Re: Gluten intolerance may really be immune dysfunction

#57

Post by atinoda-kestrel »

brerlapn wrote: post #54
mattmanser wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chris Kresser, M.S., L.Ac is a globally recognized leader in the fields of ancestral health, Paleo nutrition, and functional and integrative medicine Yeah... Really scientific, unbiased, peer reviewed, modern research. Not a snake oil salesman at all. Also any article in the format "X reasons [thing] is more harmful than [other thing]" can generally be laughed at.

TFA clearly doesn't support your re-written straw man headline, and by comparison: - Kresser: 21 citations to "scientific, unbiased, peer reviewed, modern research" - NYT OpEd guest writer: naked unsupported assertion that "most of these assertions [about gluten], however, are contradicted by significant evidence" providing no references or scientific discussion Which one is snake oil again? More ironic, the Kresser…

Which one is snake oil again?

Well... cod liver oil, actually. And that would be here: http://store.chriskresser.com/

Frankly, I wouldn't put a whole lot of faith in either.

Re: Gluten intolerance may really be immune dysfunction

#58

Post by blacksmith_tb »

learnstats2 wrote: post #14
ajross wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um... The whole point here is that unscientific nonsense needs to be killed. And specifically that non-Celiac gluten sensitivity has no real evidence for it. So your response is to trot out an equally unfounded (AFAIK) hippie-inspired pseudo-theory. Seriously?

Why is it so urgent to kill this? It does nobody harm if some people choose to avoid gluten, and greatly benefits coeliac sufferers who have increasing good nutrition options.

Unfortunately, that isn't quite true. Many GF products substitute rice for wheat, which is lower-fiber, lower-protein, and contains potentially dangerous levels of arsenic, e.g. http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm352569.ht...

Re: Gluten intolerance may really be immune dysfunction

#59

Post by Abraln »

Frondo wrote: post #56
dangero wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a common misconception. People have varying symptoms, but it's important to remember that those are symptoms and may not equate the the damage done to your system. I was like you re:symptoms, but instead of going gluten free, I got an allergy panel done and celiac disease came back. I was actually still kind of disbelieving since my symptoms seemed light, so I followed it up with a stomach biopsy to c…

See, I wouldn't have even thought to seek out medical advice, I literally didn't think there was anything wrong except getting old. The person who told me to cut wheat down wasn't a doctor nor a nutritionist, and the advice kind of came out of nowhere (not related to me complaining about my aching knee or anything). I likely won't get tested at this point, because it sounds invasive, and I am (as before) happy with m…

An allergy test can be as simple as a doctor dipping a small plastic spike in some concentrated allergen, then poking you (lightly, not enough to break the skin, just enough to leave a mark that will fade in a few hours) with both that and a "control" spike, then comparing the redness after a short wait. Pain wise, it is no worse than an ant bite in my experience, and I was tested for the 50 most common allergies at once (we were trying to ID the source of some symptoms I was having).

IANAD though, so testing for celiac disease may require more.

Re: Gluten intolerance may really be immune dysfunction

#60

Post by Frondo »

Abraln wrote: post #59
Frondo wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, I wouldn't have even thought to seek out medical advice, I literally didn't think there was anything wrong except getting old. The person who told me to cut wheat down wasn't a doctor nor a nutritionist, and the advice kind of came out of nowhere (not related to me complaining about my aching knee or anything). I likely won't get tested at this point, because it sounds invasive, and I am (as before) happy with m…

An allergy test can be as simple as a doctor dipping a small plastic spike in some concentrated allergen, then poking you (lightly, not enough to break the skin, just enough to leave a mark that will fade in a few hours) with both that and a "control" spike, then comparing the redness after a short wait. Pain wise, it is no worse than an ant bite in my experience, and I was tested for the 50 most common allergies at…

It was "stomach biopsy" that sounded more invasive than an allergen skin test. :)
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