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Virtual Reality Will Bring Back the Arcade

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Re: Virtual Reality Will Bring Back the Arcade

#51
post #13

I'm reminded of a story I heard about some kind of VR experience at Disney or some theme park. He thought it was cool and got in line to use it. The guy before him was very physical during his sim and sweated up a storm. He put the goggles on, got immediately grossed out by the hot sweaty mess inside and took it off before it had even started. Gross.

Oculus and the like have developed procedures for wiping down the headset between each use during demos. As long as there is a human operator (which is somewhat necessary for this generation of VR experiences), this shouldn't be too much of an issue.

I grew up in the smoke filled arcades of the 1980s and think it's probably likely that this procedure won't survive contact with lazy arcade operators outside of the VR vendor's quality experience control.

Re: Virtual Reality Will Bring Back the Arcade

#52
post #8

Arcades were a product of a time when tech was expensive and real estate was cheap. They're not coming back any time soon.

There are also sometimes burdensome regulations about who is allowed to host an arcade in terms of zoning (usually put in place as an anticompetitive measure, local ordinance). I know some people that had to deal with that.

Super Arcade, a great arcade nearish LA, is having similar problems right now. Had to shut down last December due to rent changes, was set to move, then the city council decided it wasn't going to allow it.

http://superdojo.blogspot.com/

Re: Virtual Reality Will Bring Back the Arcade

#53

You know why people don't like arcades anymore? Per play session value is super low. When it was like one quarter to play a game, it was fun, cheap entertainment. When the per game cost jumped up to a $0.50 or $1.00, or even more in some cases, it started to become a bad deal. There is still a place for cheap arcade fun. It's just that arcade machines aren't cheap enough to hook people anymore.

25 cents in 1977 and one dollar today are equivalent prices.

Yes, but they don't feel psychologically the same.

Re: Virtual Reality Will Bring Back the Arcade

#54
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's one thing a VR arcade can have that very few consumers can have, in areas where VRcades might be likely to thrive: physical space. Immersive VR requires at least some space to move around in, or set up a big omnidirectional treadmill in. As the human population grows but Earth stays the same size, personal living quarters will always be at a premium, the rent will always be too damn high, and space to set up…

Just one minor quibble: the reason we have density issues in cities is not that Earth doesn't have enough space for humans to spread out -- even if we only count the nice parts. No, the answer is that we actually seem to enjoy living in really dense clusters and spend a premium on trying to pile more and more people in to the mess. (Well, there's some argument that wealthy people have had an undue influence on the so…

I don't think cities form out of enjoyment (although this becomes a factor for many people after a city and its services have already formed). They form because there is some infrastructure or geographical rarity that many people can benefit from, thus they move there. Train stations, harbors, water ways, airports, mines and castles come to mind as a seed. Once people move there, more and more services become available, making the location more and more attractive for employers, people seeking jobs and people seeking apartments. A certain density is optimal for economic productivity, thus cities are usually don't deviate much from that density, except in places where zoning is heavily regulated. East Asia, especially SK and Japan, is a good place to see how cities grow organically.

Re: Virtual Reality Will Bring Back the Arcade

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just one minor quibble: the reason we have density issues in cities is not that Earth doesn't have enough space for humans to spread out -- even if we only count the nice parts. No, the answer is that we actually seem to enjoy living in really dense clusters and spend a premium on trying to pile more and more people in to the mess. (Well, there's some argument that wealthy people have had an undue influence on the so…

I don't think cities form out of enjoyment (although this becomes a factor for many people after a city and its services have already formed). They form because there is some infrastructure or geographical rarity that many people can benefit from, thus they move there. Train stations, harbors, water ways, airports, mines and castles come to mind as a seed. Once people move there, more and more services become availab…

My point, and perhaps I was unclear, is that people seem happy to exchange the costs of density for the benefits of density (trains and airports; lots of varied good provided; many different kinds of jobs from many different employers; etc), ie, that there are no "density issues" with cities, it's just that people really want to live on top of each other as much as the rapidly rising costs seem to indicate, and we haven't adjusted to this idea as a society yet from our older vision of sparse open West and the American frontier (or pick your local myths). The post I was replying to implied that people were somehow forced in to cities -- it's just untrue. They could be lots of other places, they just choose to be in cities. (Nothing in my post was about how cities nucleated, and was entirely about why cities have the rising costs they do, which reflect a HUGE demand for more city rather than a demand for out of the city.)

I didn't mean that if you found a unicorn, they wouldn't prefer it, just that at the end of day, people made the compromise of plowing their fields with horses, not narwhals.

Focusing on the horn as "man, that would be a great feature to add!" misses something interesting in why they picked the horse to the (perhaps arguably) more majestic narwhal. I would even argue that studying why the preference when you split the unicorn in to extant beings is the paramount question about the topic, since it gives us the seeds to move forward building more dense (and enjoyable!) cities and societies.

I find it interesting that despite everyone lamenting how they wish they weren't in cities, they don't take any of the many opportunities to move to smaller cities or out of cities all together, despite there being many such chances. (Some people do, obviously, and are quite happy with their choice. I just meant that there was a net flow in to cities.)

In so far as you point out that cities seem to top out a certain size that doesn't hit any inherent physical constraints, our daydreaming about unicorns (and more importantly, our discussion of horse versus narwhal) serves to improve these limits and let us move towards more focused centers of human activity.

The information age (and really... modern humans for ~10,000 years) has been driven largely by focused human intelligence, of which cities -- being a natural focal point of human efforts -- have played center stage. The story of humanity since the ice age can be glibly phrased as: we found a way to stay in one place, and grew; we found a way to get power more efficiently, and got denser, and grew; we made many theoretical breakthroughs about the mechanics of getting, storing, transporting, and using power, and got denser, and grew. The past few centuries have been a concerted effort on externalizing our various faculties, following a series of breakthroughs on fundamentals, and as a result we've been able to double the population in just the past ~100 years. People have picked up on the narrative, even if they don't know why it's happening, yet.

They enjoy getting to be part of the important cluster of human activity, instead of relegated to energy production out on a farm.

tl;dr: You made an uncharitable reading of my posts, and failed to connect that I was using "enjoy" as a euphemism for the idea of a "utility" function, because I was talking in public, and wanted my idea to be generally understood rather than technically sound. This error in parsing my post led you to make a long rant -- concurring with me. Your violent agreement amused me, so I wrote you a rant back. [Ed: Or just flat out missed I was talking about why the skyrocketing prices, not the nucleation of new cities.]

Hope you're having a good day. (:

Re: Virtual Reality Will Bring Back the Arcade

#56
post #22

I think some folks are forgetting the benefits of an arcade that go beyond the games themselves. There's an establishment near me called Arkadia Retrocade[1] that's doing fairly well attracting customers by setting a flat entrance fee with no charge at the machines. They have great atmosphere and are a popular hangout for gamers of all ages. I've seen some people pay to get in the door while barely touching the arcad…

And that flat fee is $5?!

That sounds really, really cheap. I'm so jealous right now.

Re: Virtual Reality Will Bring Back the Arcade

#57

Stuff like this will thrive: https://thevoid.com/ The VR experience has to be enhanced from what people will be able to get at home. Having a bunch of VR headsets in a room and calling that an arcade will quickly become obsolete. But what people won't have as much access to is spaces that mirror the virtual world and allow you to "feel" the space. A 1:1 physical mapping with a virtual world has a very powerful effect…

That looks really impressive. How far away are these sites from being live?

Re: Virtual Reality Will Bring Back the Arcade

#58
post #56
post #22

I think some folks are forgetting the benefits of an arcade that go beyond the games themselves. There's an establishment near me called Arkadia Retrocade[1] that's doing fairly well attracting customers by setting a flat entrance fee with no charge at the machines. They have great atmosphere and are a popular hangout for gamers of all ages. I've seen some people pay to get in the door while barely touching the arcad…

And that flat fee is $5?! That sounds really, really cheap. I'm so jealous right now.

And they recently announced they bought out the store next door! They'll be knocking the wall down and expanding, I can't wait.

Re: Virtual Reality Will Bring Back the Arcade

#59
I wasn't very convinced by this article, and it took me until the end to get to the punchline, it's written by a founder of "a startup that is bringing back the arcade as a platform and marketplace for virtual reality innovation."

My main issues:

* The author talks a lot about arcades as a social environment - this is absolutely true, but when people are strapped into HMDs in 15'x15' rooms, I just don't see how those same dynamics come into play. Sure you could have displays of what people are experiencing, but it's not the same kind of visceral or fluid experience that the best arcades have. You can't drop in on a game, or even see multiple players interacting in a physical space - ironically (or fittingly) you'd have better social interactions virtually

* Yep, VR is expensive. It takes a fair amount of gear that will be obsolete in a year or two, and the author's argument that good VR requires 1:1 motion and a large amount of floorspace (individual 15'x15' rooms, conservatively) and it doesn't sound like a very palatable (or profitable) business venture to me.

I could see some aweomse social experiences like The Void that use VR HMDs for shared mix-reality use (cavernous warehouses w/ redirected walking, practical effects, etc), but that's pretty far from the author's suggestion of putting regular consumer VR arcades up (I can also see existing PC bangs/KTV/room-based Internet cafes in Asia transitioning to VR if there is demand assuming that multiple people/headsets can interact in a shared space (otherwise the economics still doesn't make sense), but IMO VR arcades that just house regular VR experiences seem DOA.

Re: Virtual Reality Will Bring Back the Arcade

#60
post #59

I wasn't very convinced by this article, and it took me until the end to get to the punchline, it's written by a founder of "a startup that is bringing back the arcade as a platform and marketplace for virtual reality innovation." My main issues: * The author talks a lot about arcades as a social environment - this is absolutely true, but when people are strapped into HMDs in 15'x15' rooms, I just don't see how those…

Your comments are not representative of someone that read the article.

Arcades as a social environment was not stressed in the article. On top of that, 15' x 15' rooms were never mentioned in the article. That is currently the dimensions that the Vive allows for. There is nothing that says that virtual interactions could not also happen within an arcade.

Again what is with the 15' x 15' rooms?

Never once does it suggest that arcades should use consumer grade tech and in fact that is the complete opposite of what the article says.

I think you have a vision of what a VR arcade is and that influenced your thought process. Most of the points that you argue are of your own construction.

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