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Greece debt crisis: ECB 'to end' bank emergency lending

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Greece debt crisis: ECB 'to end' bank emergency lending

#51

Post by randomname2 »

elmar wrote: post #45
chkuendig wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Varoufakis apparently told BBC that the banks might stay closed tomorrow and that capital controls could be imposed. http://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/615112479828348928 edit: scratch that. http://twitter.com/yanisvaroufakis/status/615127339102531584

Not imposing capital restrictions is suicide, i don't know if Yanis varoufakis is an economical genius a madman or simply amateurish.

Well, by first saying "capital controls" and then "no capital controls", Varoufakis just kept in line with the diplomatic strategy of Greece, which has been to promptly deny everything it has just said.

Re: Greece debt crisis: ECB 'to end' bank emergency lending

#52

Post by jeroen94704 »

aikah wrote: post #33
jeroen94704 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I am certainly sympathetic to the Greeks for the hardships they have faced and will undoubtedly face in the years to come, it is incredibly unfair to deny the Greeks' own responsibility in all this. This entire mess started with Greece not having its finances in order, and essentially lying about this for years to the rest of the Eurogroup. After it became clear how dire the situation was, the Eurogroup stepped…

> While I am certainly sympathetic to the Greeks for the hardships they have faced and will undoubtedly face in the years to come, it is incredibly unfair to deny the Greeks' own responsibility in all this. Nobody is denying that fact. But it seems you are forgetting that Greece made a lot of tough decisions for its people when asked by its creditors to "reform" yet it is just not sustainable, it's like asking the gr…

> you are forgetting that Greece made a lot of tough decisions for its people when asked by its creditors to "reform" yet it is just not sustainable, it's like asking the greeks to commit suicide.

No, I am not forgetting this. The Greek people are certainly suffering from the reforms. But this suffering would have happened anyway, with or without the Euro.

Greece has made such a mess of its finances, in a number of ways, that even if it had never joined the Euro, it would have gone bankrupt at some point anyway.

> The euro is an insane experiment anyway. It cannot work. Too many structural and economical differences between euro countries.

Perhaps, but I hope you're wrong :).

> It seems that the only country really profiting from this is Germany.

There is free trade between all EU countries, not just the Euro countries. It is this free trade that Germany is profiting from, not the Euro currency.

Re: Greece debt crisis: ECB 'to end' bank emergency lending

#53

Post by peteretep »

gizmo wrote: post #43
jeroen94704 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I am certainly sympathetic to the Greeks for the hardships they have faced and will undoubtedly face in the years to come, it is incredibly unfair to deny the Greeks' own responsibility in all this. This entire mess started with Greece not having its finances in order, and essentially lying about this for years to the rest of the Eurogroup. After it became clear how dire the situation was, the Eurogroup stepped…

Your narrative is mostly incorrect. - The EU was aware that Greece's finances were not as portrayed. This was an open secret. However, Germany and France were breaking max deficit rules at the time, and they would look like huge hypocrites if they complained about Greece's numbers. So they didn't. Rose colored glasses and political expedience played a huge role here. - A country can't go bankrupt. They can simply ref…

    > When banks lend money to a country this isn't charity. 
    > They get interest payments and in exchange risk not
    > getting paid back at all if things go sour
...

    > The banks who lent to Greece got 90% of the bailout
    > package. Not the people of Greece. So it's not true
    > Greece received "several hundred billion in aid"
It's a shame that these two pieces of information aren't at the absolute top of every article, every piece of coverage about Greece.

If Greece was a person, they'd have gone through bankruptcy and been discharged by now, and the banks who'd imprudently lent to them would have taken a haircut.

Re: Greece debt crisis: ECB 'to end' bank emergency lending

#55

Post by randomname2 »

[deleted] wrote: post #46

[deleted]

While that may be what the statement says, the other part of that statement is that the Greek ELA program has been frozen. As such it is only a matter of time before the entire program is unwound a la Cyprus in March 2013.

Re: Greece debt crisis: ECB 'to end' bank emergency lending

#56

Post by Someone »

randomname2 wrote: post #13

The BBC should know better than this, using "unnamed sources" to quote a rumour as fact. No decision has been made yet, so this is just misinformation. Expect more of this over the next days.

Certainly with the BBC, that likely means "we talked to people who gave us information we judge to be correct, but we cannot tell you who those people are (likely because that was a precondition for them giving the information)"

See http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/editorialguidelines/edguide/... (I would make a clearer distinction between unnamed ("we know who (s)he is, but cannot tell you") and anonymous ("we don't know who (s)he is, so we cannot tell you") sources)

Re: Greece debt crisis: ECB 'to end' bank emergency lending

#57

Post by [deleted] »

chkuendig wrote: post #24
elmar wrote: post #19

They have to impose capital restrictions fast... What Would Greek Capital Controls Look Like? http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-01/how-greek-...

Varoufakis apparently told BBC that the banks might stay closed tomorrow and that capital controls could be imposed. http://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/615112479828348928 edit: scratch that. http://twitter.com/yanisvaroufakis/status/615127339102531584

[deleted]

Re: Greece debt crisis: ECB 'to end' bank emergency lending

#58

Post by sambe »

Several people are interpreting "stays the same" as good news for Greece and contrary to the article. I interpret it as the opposite: it will not expand further to meet the demand, thus Greek banks will run out of money. I didn't have the impression anyone expected the full amount to be recalled.

Re: Greece debt crisis: ECB 'to end' bank emergency lending

#59

Post by randomname2 »

sambe wrote: post #58

Several people are interpreting "stays the same" as good news for Greece and contrary to the article. I interpret it as the opposite: it will not expand further to meet the demand, thus Greek banks will run out of money. I didn't have the impression anyone expected the full amount to be recalled.

The article was incorrect by stating ELA would be "turned off", as it will merely be frozen, or at least the ECB is saying so.

However if the ECB follows through on this, the end result may be the same and it's only a matter of time before the entire ELA bailout is unwound like in Cyprus.

Re: Greece debt crisis: ECB 'to end' bank emergency lending

#60

Post by debtopolis »

randomname2 wrote: post #44

ECB statement: ELA to Greek banks maintained at its current level - ECB takes note of decision on Greek referendum and the non-prolongation of the EU adjustment programme - ECB will work closely with Bank of Greece to maintain financial stability - Emergency liquidity assistance maintained at Friday’s (26 June 2015) level - Governing Council stands ready to review decision - Governing Council closely monitoring situa…

The Greek version of monopoly - they cleaned out the bank early, and everyone loses (game over!)
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