Live data from Hacker News

11-Year-Old Boy Played in His Yard. CPS Took Him, Felony Charge for Parents

reason.com

51–60 of 70 posts

Re: 11-Year-Old Boy Played in His Yard. CPS Took Him, Felony Charge for Parents

#51
post #48
post #43

I looked up the relevant part of the legal code: 3)(a) "Neglect of a child" means: 1. A caregiver's failure or omission to provide a child with the care, supervision, and services necessary to maintain the child's physical and mental health, including, but not limited to, food, nutrition, clothing, shelter, supervision, medicine, and medical services that a prudent person would consider essential for the well-being o…

To prove the crime of Neglect of a Child, the State must prove the following three elements beyond a reasonable doubt: 1. (Defendant) a. [willfully] [by culpable negligence] failed or omitted to provide (victim) with the care, supervision, and services necessary to maintain (victim’s) physical or mental health. b. failed to make a reasonable effort to protect (victim) from abuse, neglect, or exploitation by another p…

Failed to provide "care, supervision, and services" for 17 year olds?

I hoped at 14 they declare the kids grown up.

Re: 11-Year-Old Boy Played in His Yard. CPS Took Him, Felony Charge for Parents

#52
The article is likely a fake, a grown up version of the children camp horror story, and it gets retold for the same reason. In a quality news article you have to have answers to three questions: who, where, when. These three are necessary to verify claims independently, and their absence is highly suspect. There are exceptions to the rule - sometimes a journalist has to protect the people involved, such as in the case of a vulnerable crime victim or a political whistleblower (Watergate, Snowden), but then we're basically relying on the reputation on the journalist or the newspaper in question - a track record of getting scandalous stories right.

In this case there is no reason to hide the names, dates, or location (as the neighbors already know and the court records are open), and there is no way to ascertain the credibility of the news source.

Absence of both a credible source and a credible reporter to vouch for the anonymous source breaks the chain of credibility - the article might as well be made up, and it usually is.

Another suspicious factor is that the claims are so outlandish - the more outrageous the claim, the more likely its a fake. When a reader is frightened or outraged he is more likely to disregard caution and share the story, and so it goes viral. For that reason outlandish stories are more likely to get shared regardless of merit, as opposed to less exceptional stories that get shared more inline with their truthfulness, and so statistically speaking an outlandish story is more likely to be a fake scare, whereas a mundane story is more likely to be true.

Yet another factor to consider is absence of an attempt to get the other side of the story - no mention of trying to contact CPS, or District Attorney to get their comments on the case.

Re: 11-Year-Old Boy Played in His Yard. CPS Took Him, Felony Charge for Parents

#53
post #33
post #7

I am foreigner, so could someone explain to me - why this is happening? From my discussion similar incidents with other parents it seems like everybody not sure why such attitude exists today. I mean, it should be same adults who have no clue why it is done, pass and enforce these laws?

As an American who spends a lot of time in other countries, here's my best, shortest attempt to explain: 1) The cultural trust and norms in our country are dead. Everything gets the most superficial consideration, there's no basis of reasonableness such that even the judge doesn't stop the machine, power is so distributed that there's no reasonable authority in place, and people like CPS -- who have difficult and cha…

It's not happening in the US only either...large parts of the EU have to deal with this bureaucracy, and the EU itself is probably the biggest bureaucracy of them all.

You're mentioning you're upper middle class...middle class doesn't exist anymore, you're a peasant like the rest of us.

You're right on the other hand about living in rural areas. I moved with my wife and kids from a big city 7 years ago to a small village and never regretted that decision.

Re: 11-Year-Old Boy Played in His Yard. CPS Took Him, Felony Charge for Parents

#54
From the guidelines:

”On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one’s intellectual curiosity.

Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they’re evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. (...)”

Flagged.

Re: 11-Year-Old Boy Played in His Yard. CPS Took Him, Felony Charge for Parents

#55

I say this literally every time a story like this pops up but, as ever, I'll say it again: Have the (adults) in charge completely lost their minds? Is the government so out of touch with reality that this makes sense to them? I loved going on walks or riding my bike to the shops or sleeping in/playing at home when i was 10 or 11, and yet now this seems all but impossible to consider? How the hell did this happen?

Agreed, in the summers (in small town america), when i was that age i was kicked out of the house after breakfast and not allowed back (unless it was raining) until lunch, and then kicked out again until dinner. I loved running around outside with my friends, our dogs, horrendously constructed forts, and our bb guns. The "bad" parents were the ones that let their kids stay home and vegetate in front of the TV. What h…

The "bad" parents were the ones that let their kids stay home and vegetate in front of the TV.

I believe that's still considered true, the "good parents" will instead arrange for the kids to have lots of supervised activities and organized play dates. It's all about making sure the kids have no space to make their own mistakes.

Re: 11-Year-Old Boy Played in His Yard. CPS Took Him, Felony Charge for Parents

#56

Foster parent here (from another state than in the article). I'm going to go a bit off topic, but I want to comment on this snippet: > [The kids had been eating] [o]nly cereal, for the past few days. That's not going to kill anyone, obviously. But if you're arresting parents for not supervising their kids for 90 minutes, it's more than a little hypocritical. There's probably a good reason for that: the foster parents…

> The thing I don't want is to think the kid is okay and then find out they've been holding it all back.

Great insight. Kids at that age are looking for parental/adult approval and they know that the adults around them want them to be "okay." They can hide a lot of emotions if they think they'll be loved more for being "normal."

Re: 11-Year-Old Boy Played in His Yard. CPS Took Him, Felony Charge for Parents

#57

Foster parent here (from another state than in the article). I'm going to go a bit off topic, but I want to comment on this snippet: > [The kids had been eating] [o]nly cereal, for the past few days. That's not going to kill anyone, obviously. But if you're arresting parents for not supervising their kids for 90 minutes, it's more than a little hypocritical. There's probably a good reason for that: the foster parents…

The CURRENT situation makes the kids worse off in the name of making them better? I'd rather take having my parents late without keys for 90 minutes than being taken away from my family by force and have to grow up who knows where at age 10. And these kids from broken families then do worse in life. No offense to foster parents, there is a great need to take kids in after REAL disasters where THEY want to leVe - ones where the parents are actually unfit or dead. When does leaving a kid to play in a yard the equivalent of being an angry drunk who beats your kid?

Re: 11-Year-Old Boy Played in His Yard. CPS Took Him, Felony Charge for Parents

#58
post #21

I say this literally every time a story like this pops up but, as ever, I'll say it again: Have the (adults) in charge completely lost their minds? Is the government so out of touch with reality that this makes sense to them? I loved going on walks or riding my bike to the shops or sleeping in/playing at home when i was 10 or 11, and yet now this seems all but impossible to consider? How the hell did this happen?

> How the hell did this happen? Standard: Some bad parents actually do exist. So, with a few such examples, some people who want to get attention get some laws passed and set up CPS with some really big powers, e.g., ones that violate little things like due process. Some of the laws mention felonies. Then the CPS department gets created, funded, and staffed. Then a phone call comes in, and CPS swings into action . Th…

No offence, but your comment would be more convincing without Hitler/Nazi references.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Re: 11-Year-Old Boy Played in His Yard. CPS Took Him, Felony Charge for Parents

#59
I think that no matter how close to the truth this particular story is, there are similar ones circulating on the web and the circumstance has also made it to John Oliver's show - which I believe does a lot with regard to credibility.

We need to contrast this to stories like this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9677863 [How my father gave me a terrifying lesson at 10] which received overwhelmingly positive feedback on here.

We are living in a society that has been induced with fear so much that parents give away the freedom even of their kids. I wonder what kind of people these kids will grow to become. And I wonder how many parents ask themselves this question.

Re: 11-Year-Old Boy Played in His Yard. CPS Took Him, Felony Charge for Parents

#60
post #13
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These cases are a tiny minority. CPS deals with real horrifying and tragic situations every day. I'm actually more shocked that there are prosecutors and even judges that go along with this BS. I can believe one insane activist CPS worker here and there, but an entire chain of people to back them up??

> CPS deals with real horrifying and tragic situations every day. That's what boggles my mind the most. Every time we hear about CPS they're overworked and have to deal with horrors I don't even want to imagine. But how do they have time to waste voluntarily ruining peoples' lives?

> But how do they have time to waste voluntarily ruining peoples' lives? Perception bias. The only time you'll hear about CPS is in a case like this, when the agent is on a power trip and oversteps his bounds. You never hear about the success stories, where they intervene to save a child, or are successful in getting a family therapy.

I can speak from experience here, I have dealt with CPS. When I was notified they would be visiting our house, I did some research. I read the horror stories, and I learned a key detail: CPS is not a policing agency. The threats of taking your children from you and throwing you in jail are idle: only police and judges can do that. When you deal with CPS, only let them in your house if they agree to be recorded. If they refuse, or their supervisor objects, don't let them in. Unless they have a warrant, you are under NO obligation to deal with them. (Bear in mind, though, the courts will probably side with CPS)

But I digress. My experience with the social worker was that she was just as nervous in dealing with me as I was with her, but she was genuinely interested in understanding and offering assistance. She asked a few questions, held a follow up visit, and that was the end of it.

Post reply on HN