ADP Begins to Roll Out a Zenefits Competitor • Hacker News Board

Re: ADP Begins to Roll Out a Zenefits Competitor

#51

Post by morganvachon » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 5:47 PM UTC

hoopism wrote: post #11

[deleted] wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

With all the attention why not try and turn the message into a positive one (highlight what you do and why it's better). A positive message would give people who don't know you a reason to check you out and your existing customers confidence that you are competent to overcome the current situation. Right now it feels like they are just trying to justify why they failed... even if the succeed in blaming ADP they still…

I think the whole thing stinks from both sides. Zenefits' blog post does seem to walk the narrow line between informing their customers and defaming ADP. Meanwhile, ADP files a defamation lawsuit then turns right around and releases their competing platform, which could damage their case (to my non-lawyer mind, so I could be completely off base there).

I can see merit in both parties' cases against the the other, but I can see a ton of shenanigans on both their parts as well.

Re: ADP Begins to Roll Out a Zenefits Competitor

#52

Post by CPLX » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 5:47 PM UTC

Frankly, the simple fact that there is a headline on the Zenefits site that says "ADP Begins to Roll Out a Zenefits Competitor" shows that they have seriously lost their focus.

Re: ADP Begins to Roll Out a Zenefits Competitor

#53

Post by ceejayoz » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 5:48 PM UTC

joshstrange wrote: post #20

gamblor956 wrote: post #9

Blatant FUD from Zenefits. ADP's new product is an online payroll/HR SaaS that integrates across its entire product line. Zenefit's product is a glorified remote bookkeeping service in which you enter data into the Zenefits website and they re-enter it manually, and usually incorrectly, into the ADP website and scrape the results, usually incorrectly, so they can post a response several days later to your Zenefits ac…

If they are so "completely different" then why would the ADP rep say: > “We are coming out with a product to compete with Zenefits, a full service integrated online payroll and benefits solution.” I can't seem to argue with Zenefits stance that they are being sued for complaining that their access was cut off in an attempt to kill them off while ADP launches a similar product... On top of that who is ADP to cut off a…

In fairness, some sales reps will say anything to make the sale.

Re: ADP Begins to Roll Out a Zenefits Competitor

#54

Post by wvenable » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 5:52 PM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #15

wvenable wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It actually works a bit differently; it's not all scraping. People enter data into Zenefits and then it populates that data into ADP. I don't think the issue is as cut and dried as the typical web scraping situation and I wonder how HN readers feel about this kind of thing. The data belongs to the client. The client chooses to use both services. Should it matter how the client accesses their own information from the…

Generally, from an ethical perspective, it matters at the point when you choose to build a business on the method of accessing a 3rd party service. From a legal perspective, the profit-making purpose is irrelevant. Improper access matters when you start using the service.

Are accountants who access ADP on behalf of their clients doing something unethical? Does it matter if that accountant uses their own scripts or wget to access ADP?

> Improper access matters when you start using the service.

I don't know what this means.

Re: ADP Begins to Roll Out a Zenefits Competitor

#55

Post by makeitsuckless » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 5:52 PM UTC

I'm filing Zenefits in under the heading "companies that confuse 'disruptive' with 'douchebag'".

Re: ADP Begins to Roll Out a Zenefits Competitor

#56

Post by ams6110 » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 5:53 PM UTC

IANAL but I belive the stock advice when you are facing a lawsuit is to shut up about it. "We don't comment on matters under litigation" is the standard line, and for good reason.

Re: ADP Begins to Roll Out a Zenefits Competitor

#57

Post by BinaryIdiot » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 5:53 PM UTC

phantom_oracle wrote: post #41

Reading this story, the lawsuit story and in trying to keep up with this entire fiasco... You end up feeling both sorry and a sour taste in your mouth for both companies. They're both obviously very good at "spin" and drumming up PR to win support of their audience. I previously thought things would get settled amicably, out of court, with Zenefits saying "sorry", ADP saying "its okay" and the 2 companies settling on…

> With that in mind, and also the fact that Zenefits can no longer be classified as a startup - with +50 (or is it +100 employees)

Ha, because of all of the manual entry they have to do as of February 2015 Zenefits had over 500 employees. When the CEO went on TWiST just a week or two ago he said they were over 1,000 and hiring 100 new employees a month.

They're burning hard and fast.

Re: ADP Begins to Roll Out a Zenefits Competitor

#58

Post by untog » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 5:54 PM UTC

joshstrange wrote: post #20

gamblor956 wrote: post #9

Blatant FUD from Zenefits. ADP's new product is an online payroll/HR SaaS that integrates across its entire product line. Zenefit's product is a glorified remote bookkeeping service in which you enter data into the Zenefits website and they re-enter it manually, and usually incorrectly, into the ADP website and scrape the results, usually incorrectly, so they can post a response several days later to your Zenefits ac…

If they are so "completely different" then why would the ADP rep say: > “We are coming out with a product to compete with Zenefits, a full service integrated online payroll and benefits solution.” I can't seem to argue with Zenefits stance that they are being sued for complaining that their access was cut off in an attempt to kill them off while ADP launches a similar product... On top of that who is ADP to cut off a…

It stinks but this is why you don't form a company based around another company's product. You will either get bought by them or screwed over, and you often won't find out which one it is until it's too late.

It's not a fun bet.

Re: ADP Begins to Roll Out a Zenefits Competitor

#59

Post by BinaryIdiot » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 5:54 PM UTC

CPLX wrote: post #52

Frankly, the simple fact that there is a headline on the Zenefits site that says "ADP Begins to Roll Out a Zenefits Competitor" shows that they have seriously lost their focus.

Yeah if anything they should have "leaked" this story of a news outlet. Putting it on the site is just insanity.

Re: ADP Begins to Roll Out a Zenefits Competitor

#60

Post by tomasien » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 5:54 PM UTC

I can understand that many people probably don't feel Zenefits is totally in the right in this dispute as a whole, but I struggle to see how you can dispute that ADP is being ridiculously two faced. I'm not sure how thinking ADP is better than Zenefits or that web scraping is bad or whatever people saying about Zenefits is relevant to the fact that ADP filed a lawsuit in federal court saying they're NOT making a Zenefits competitor and then sent out emails to customers saying explicitly that they ARE making a Zenefits competitor. Whatever else you think about this situation, that is obviously pretty screwed up.