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Generating Magic cards using deep, recursive neural networks

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Re: Generating Magic cards using deep, recursive neural networks

#51

Post by lsiebert »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #48
tarblog wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure this card is on cost. My neural network is telling me that it's actually too good at 4 mana. Don't forget about potential combos like having a bunch of zero cost creatures in your graveyard + anything else that triggers when you play a spell or when a creature enters the battlefield. But even without that, this is a card advantage machine.

It's rather good at 4 mana, though that could be balanced in the metagame by making it rare or mythic. What zero-cost creatures did you have in mind? Those aren't incredibly common. And in any case, a combo that requires 3-4 specific cards is not overpowered; one that only requires 2 specific cards often is.

you need two zero cost creatures and a way to sacrifice them for benefits, then just trade off. I can think of infinite mana with four cards.

Re: Generating Magic cards using deep, recursive neural networks

#52

Post by tarblog »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #48
tarblog wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure this card is on cost. My neural network is telling me that it's actually too good at 4 mana. Don't forget about potential combos like having a bunch of zero cost creatures in your graveyard + anything else that triggers when you play a spell or when a creature enters the battlefield. But even without that, this is a card advantage machine.

It's rather good at 4 mana, though that could be balanced in the metagame by making it rare or mythic. What zero-cost creatures did you have in mind? Those aren't incredibly common. And in any case, a combo that requires 3-4 specific cards is not overpowered; one that only requires 2 specific cards often is.

Fair enough, but this card doesn't hinge on its combo ability. Imagine it in BW weenie with things like Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit.

Even the synergy with Fume Spitter is pretty great. :)

Re: Generating Magic cards using deep, recursive neural networks

#53

Post by Everlag »

_raoulcousins wrote: post #41
Everlag wrote: post #17

Magic is an interesting game just from an text analytics perspective. Using a source like mtgjson you get a reasonably sized corpus of text that looks natural enough for a human to comfortably grok but sufficiently templated to apply even naive methods and acquire awesome results. I built a tool that uses n-grams to find cards similar to each other. The result is comparable to manual suggestions done by users but tak…

Are you the creator of mythicspoiler? I know they wanted to do something like that. As of a few sets ago the 'Similar Cards' in their spoilers were chosen manually.

I am not but curiously enough I got the idea from a short response the creator of mythicspoiler had made on a reddit thread asking for an api to find similar cards or some such. He mentioned that he had played with n-grams but found it to be a dead end.

I ran with the idea and found a version weighted on matched n-gram length gets reasonable results.

Re: Generating Magic cards using deep, recursive neural networks

#54

Post by Everlag »

centizen wrote: post #32
Everlag wrote: post #17

Magic is an interesting game just from an text analytics perspective. Using a source like mtgjson you get a reasonably sized corpus of text that looks natural enough for a human to comfortably grok but sufficiently templated to apply even naive methods and acquire awesome results. I built a tool that uses n-grams to find cards similar to each other. The result is comparable to manual suggestions done by users but tak…

I am extremely interested to see anything you have public on this project - both from a technical and deckbuilder's perspective!

You can see a working example over at https://preorda.in/card/Kiora,%20the%20Crashing%20Wave/Born%...

I wrote it around a year ago when I was still getting a good feel for go so its a fairly gross ~500 line go package. However, it exports a moderately sane QueryableSimilarityData with the ability to Query that data for individual names. A query result is both the cards that were found to match and how confident it was. It caches after computing the entire dataset's results so it is fast to query after closed.

If you want to muck around with it, you'll need to use a relative import because its just easier for a single file package.

Everything you need apart from the dataset is in https://github.com/Everlag/goPricesBeta/blob/master/utilitie...

Just stick an AllCards-x.json from mtgjson.com in the same directory as binary the package was used in and it should expose the interface I described above to anything trying to use it.

As a note, its non-permissively licensed but message me on reddit under this username and I'll re-license that component. Also, feel free to message me if you want a hand or have any ideas.

Re: Generating Magic cards using deep, recursive neural networks

#55

Post by Everlag »

sr-ix wrote: post #27
Everlag wrote: post #17

Magic is an interesting game just from an text analytics perspective. Using a source like mtgjson you get a reasonably sized corpus of text that looks natural enough for a human to comfortably grok but sufficiently templated to apply even naive methods and acquire awesome results. I built a tool that uses n-grams to find cards similar to each other. The result is comparable to manual suggestions done by users but tak…

Is this tool open source anywhere?

Check out my reply to centizen

Re: Generating Magic cards using deep, recursive neural networks

#56

Post by vertoc »

A question I have about this, and I'm new to neural networks so this might be entirely wrong, but would it be possible to create another neural network that returns whether or not a card is overpowered or not and run that on all the cards generated by this neural network? Then you could get a set of fairly balanced cards even if a few might be somewhat nonsensical

Re: Generating Magic cards using deep, recursive neural networks

#57

Post by vertoc »

deet wrote: post #7
vertoc wrote: post #6

If I'm interested in Neural Networks, and I've mainly been working in web development (I know Java, C, and Python). Where would be a good place for me to start so that I can eventually make something like this project?

Andrej Karpathy's blog is excellent as a first introduction. Start with http://karpathy.github.io/neuralnets/ He also has a fantastic article specifically about recurrent neural networks here: http://karpathy.github.io/2015/05/21/rnn-effectiveness/

Awesome, thanks for this! I started reading the first link and I'm hooked, that's some extremely interesting stuff

Re: Generating Magic cards using deep, recursive neural networks

#58

Post by vertoc »

desp wrote: post #12
vertoc wrote: post #6

If I'm interested in Neural Networks, and I've mainly been working in web development (I know Java, C, and Python). Where would be a good place for me to start so that I can eventually make something like this project?

I've found http://neuralnetworksanddeeplearning.com by Michael Neilson to be an excellent resource.

Awesome, will look into, Thanks!

Re: Generating Magic cards using deep, recursive neural networks

#59

Post by JamesSwift »

tarblog wrote: post #46
JoshTriplett wrote: post #19

> Shring the Artist > 2BB > Legendary Creature - Cat > Flying > Whenever you cast a spell, you may return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand. > 2/2 That's actually a fairly plausible card, in terms of mechanics. It's thematically appropriate for black, it's about the right cost, it's powerful but specialized (returns creature cards only, and only to hand rather than to play), and it's legendary to…

I'm not so sure this card is on cost. My neural network is telling me that it's actually too good at 4 mana. Don't forget about potential combos like having a bunch of zero cost creatures in your graveyard + anything else that triggers when you play a spell or when a creature enters the battlefield. But even without that, this is a card advantage machine.

2/2 flyer for 4 isn't dominating Standard, and it would just depend on the surrounding block for how it played in Block. Legendary makes Limited moot.

Re: Generating Magic cards using deep, recursive neural networks

#60

Post by JoshTriplett »

lsiebert wrote: post #51
JoshTriplett wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's rather good at 4 mana, though that could be balanced in the metagame by making it rare or mythic. What zero-cost creatures did you have in mind? Those aren't incredibly common. And in any case, a combo that requires 3-4 specific cards is not overpowered; one that only requires 2 specific cards often is.

you need two zero cost creatures and a way to sacrifice them for benefits, then just trade off. I can think of infinite mana with four cards.

Magic is not a game that considers all combos a bug, and there are any number of ways to get to infinite mana (or infinite many other things) with less than four cards.
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