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Ask HN: Why is it so hard to find remote jobs in Europe?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is it so hard to find remote jobs in Europe?

#51

I am entrepreneur (also studied engineering) in Europe. I have only worked remotely most of my life. Main problem is bureaucracy. The US is a big place and it is United from West to East Coast. In Europe, once you start making lots of money, every country you touch wants your money. So if you hire a French guy the French gobertment will love to tax YOUR ENTIRE business based on their socialistic views of the world, e…

The solution is to incorporate in the member state where you live (and perform the services), and invoice your clients for your services as a company.

If you want to hire a French employee, you can incorporate a French subsidiary, and you invoice his wages (+ some operating expenses) from your main company to the subsidiary. Doesn't cost much. Clean and simple.

How is this a problem at all?

Re: Ask HN: Why is it so hard to find remote jobs in Europe?

#52
post #8

I couldn't agree more with jmnicolas - the situation is pretty similar in France, Switzerland, Belgium and Austria. There is some "hope" in UK and Germany, where they really expect to have something done. There was a guy (can't remember his name) who said that US is the only place where you can put US guys, Mexican, Chinese and ... (whoever) and make them work together. In Europe this is not the case, probably becaus…

>There was a guy (can't remember his name) who said that US is the only place where you can put US guys, Mexican, Chinese and ... (whoever) and make them work together.

As someone working in a company in London with about 25 engineers from 15 different countries I have to disagree with this statement.

Re: Ask HN: Why is it so hard to find remote jobs in Europe?

#53
post #11

My opinion based on my experience in France is that the workplace is more about appearing to be working than to actually do something useful. So if nobody can see you working because you're not in the building you're not contributing to this illusion of work being done. Where I 'work' I have a manager that has to invent some crazy projects just to keep me occupied. If he didn't do that I could work half a day every w…

Well, sounds like you either have to switch jobs or you have to work 14 times slower.

Neither option is really optimal for either party though.

The correct solution would be for him to work half days and continue with job rewards to be identical: he gets more free time and a better life, while the company gets a more loyal employee who is more relaxed and would be more willing to go that extra mile on projects which actually are important.

It's really just one of those cases where human nature and the desire for him not to get 'paid for doing nothing' is actually hurting everyone involved. Humorous and very sad.

Re: Ask HN: Why is it so hard to find remote jobs in Europe?

#54
post #26

You're most likely looking in the wrong place. The usual customary recruiting channels are setup to be usual and customary. You need to find the remote job boards. Oh, and networking, networking, networking.

https://remoteok.io/ http://jobs.remotive.io/ Please add others.

This repo maintains curated list of all resources - https://github.com/lukasz-madon/awesome-remote-job

Re: Ask HN: Why is it so hard to find remote jobs in Europe?

#55
post #30

I think any answer to this question will be speculative and opinionated. People have their experience and they have their preferences. The interpretation of one is based on the other. It's like the open plan vs offices debate that springs up on HN every so often. Mostly what we have is personal preferences justified with "facts." In reality I don't think we have that kind of understanding of what makes people work we…

"Remote work is strange in the same way that"

Don't forget non-strange remote business relationships like remote retail (buy from amazon), remote entertainment (Hollywood movie not a stage show or play, or recorded music not a live band), or remote manufacturing (imported from China not the now abandoned factory down the road), or remote software (believe it or not, companies used to write their own OS 50 years ago instead of buying a microsoft/apple product) or remote senior management (for a long time, its pretty unusual for most megacorporation employees to work at the same office as their CEO, even if they work at the same office as their boss). With increased specialization on a very long term all business has trended toward ever more remote "business interaction"... the only part that's new, is the very long term trend is starting to finally impact the lowest organizational levels of white collar general office labor.

Another hidden assumption is that physical presence or um, excessive face to face communication is necessarily a productive useful activity, combined with a heavy dose of "its popular and/or traditional therefore that means its inherently better" and/or "cultural shift is bad or unnecessary". I'm unconvinced that "mind work" is best done with enormous amounts of interpersonal coordination. That means the architecture is a poor match. By analogy its possible for a very bad general contractor to try to make the painter, plumber, electrican, and carpenter all work at the same time in the same corner of a little closet, and maybe, by heroic levels of effort and incredible professionalism and cooperation it can somehow be accomplished, but its a kind of dumb non-profitable goal. Also if you design for scalability you've just lost the game when you tightly coupled, what do you intend to do next year when "it" goes viral and the database is a department of 50 people on the other side of the country, not one dude at a conference table with the other one dude departments?

Re: Ask HN: Why is it so hard to find remote jobs in Europe?

#56

I am one of these managers in Amsterdam with an international team of 10 people from 8 different countries who still writes code. My desire is to have a team that gets the job done. The most effective way for them to do this IMO is to have them sit together so that they can discuss issues they have immediately. We are seeing effects of less effective communication of teams sitting just a few desks apart. Remote work…

I have been doing remote work for 10 years now. Github and Gitlab (if you want to host privately) are the answers for me. Concerning communication and sitting together, my question remains: What exactly is it that you are able to say but incapable of writing? Over the years, I have become suspicious of someone who cannot write something but insists that he wants to say it, because when he is finally sitting there, guess what, he can still not say it. The more complex the project, the less you want to collaborate with that person, if only because his claims that he can say the things that he is incapable of writing, are not true.

Re: Ask HN: Why is it so hard to find remote jobs in Europe?

#57
post #55
post #30

I think any answer to this question will be speculative and opinionated. People have their experience and they have their preferences. The interpretation of one is based on the other. It's like the open plan vs offices debate that springs up on HN every so often. Mostly what we have is personal preferences justified with "facts." In reality I don't think we have that kind of understanding of what makes people work we…

"Remote work is strange in the same way that" Don't forget non-strange remote business relationships like remote retail (buy from amazon), remote entertainment (Hollywood movie not a stage show or play, or recorded music not a live band), or remote manufacturing (imported from China not the now abandoned factory down the road), or remote software (believe it or not, companies used to write their own OS 50 years ago i…

Excellent comment.

Re: Ask HN: Why is it so hard to find remote jobs in Europe?

#58
post #7

Isn't the point of having a remote job to not care where the company is registered? Assuming you are in Benelux Area, what's the point of looking for remote company from Benelux Area?

In general, if it's a long term gig, you will still need to come into the office now and then. Once a week, one week every month or two months, whatever. So my assumption is that it must be somewhere accessible.

Re: Ask HN: Why is it so hard to find remote jobs in Europe?

#59
post #4

I know quite a few friend in Poland doing remote work... for US. Especially given higher IT salaries in the US than in Western Europe, it't not that bad. I do as well, but mostly freelancing contracts. The only thing that sucks is the timezone difference.

May I ask what is the relationship between remote workers and the employer's company? Are the remote workers hired directly by the US company, are they hired by a Polish subsidiary of the US company, or are they self-employed working as a contractors?

Typically:

- self-employed working as contractors,

- after some time working in the US (either an internship or a regular position), but who went back to Poland (mostly personal reasons, but sometimes visa as well),

- in smaller companies/startups from Bay Area (where making exceptions is a... standard).

Re: Ask HN: Why is it so hard to find remote jobs in Europe?

#60
Based on working in the Benelux this is what I see:

- Requirements are often given on a very high level, you will need to be aligning with business owners and other teams on a daily basis, communication is easier with all these people in the same building. (i.e. you won't be given a clear package to go off and work on on your own).

- If there is an existing team that you will be joining then the other team members will start asking why they are not allowed to work from home. (The reason for that is that in any large org they are needed for communications with other teams on a daily basis)

- If you are a contractor what is to say you are not working for another client? Much easier to keep an eye on you in-house.

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