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I was an undercover Uber driver

citypaper.net

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Re: I was an undercover Uber driver

#51

Post by s73v3r »

BurningFrog wrote: post #22
DigitalSea wrote: post #9

A few months ago when I was in Seattle for work, I caught Uber everywhere. I had so many conversations with Uber drivers about why they drove for Uber, how much money they made and why they weren't doing something else. Needless to say, unless I felt legitimately fearful for my life (which rarely ever happened) I would always rate 5 stars. I realised a lot of these Uber drivers (usually migrants with broken English)…

> you can't deny that drivers get absolutely shafted Actually you can. I think the simplest argument is the best one: They choose to do this voluntarily, every single day they drive.

Your argument is completely irrelevant. The "its voluntary" thing means absolutely nothing.

Re: I was an undercover Uber driver

#52

Post by Dylan16807 »

krapht wrote: post #2

I also drove for Uber in DC for a few months while I was between jobs. I thought it would be a fun and easy way to get a few dollars for beer. My experience mirrors that of the reporter. Towards the end, I would only drive during surge pricing hours, as that was the only way to make a reasonable net hourly wage. I have no problem hailing an Uber - they are really, really cheap. However, it's a raw deal for drivers. U…

So how much does commercial insurance cost? And since you have experience maybe you can answer this: What if you accept the insurance argument that having the app open is commercial, and shut it off to find a parking space after every ride. How long would that take, is it feasible?

Re: I was an undercover Uber driver

#53

Post by s73v3r »

jasonisalive wrote: post #34
zorpner wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of "choice" is significantly more complex than you present it to be, particularly within the context of people providing for themselves and their families, and the information asymmetry Uber leverages in order to convince people to work for them.

So what, some people have urgent needs, different parties in economic transactions have access to different information. Welcome to the free market. They're still choosing to work for Uber. No one is forcing them. Uber isn't forcing them. Uber is just offering an opportunity that they are deciding to accept.

Doesn't mean they aren't shafting their drivers.

Re: I was an undercover Uber driver

#54

Post by s73v3r »

jasonisalive wrote: post #33
yesbabyyes wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How magnanimous of you, to award imaginary points instead of enough money to support somebody. I think Uber is great for a certain subset of people. While most people who frequent HN on six figure tech salaries would definitely struggle to live on an Uber salary Seriously? I guess it's good for you guys so you only have to spend half of what it costs. Oh, and for the Uber owners of course. A certain subset of people,…

The entire economic system is built around people trying to get the best deal possible for themselves. You can try and paint that as inhumane and abusive if you're commited to emotionalising economic dynamics, but it really doesn't make any sense. At the end of the day as long as the transactions are consensual, there's no need for this rhetoric of abuse. Uber drivers know the deal and they can take it or leave it. N…

"Likewise, it's not Uber or anyone else's job or responsibility to guarantee anyone or anybody a certain standard of living."

Actually, since Uber is the one giving them a job, it IS their responsibility.

Re: I was an undercover Uber driver

#55

Post by chrismartin »

jasonisalive wrote: post #35
marincounty wrote: post #12

I see people buying 2008 plus four door vechicles(that Uber approves of--on the ever changing list) and not making money and stuck with a four door car. Four door cars are harder to sell than two door cars.(I can't point to a link to prove this, but I used to sell cars, and four door cars were a tough sell.) My problem with Uber is the requirement for a 2008 or newer car, and Uber decides if it's cool enough to repre…

Uber offers a certain deal to potential drivers, they either like it enough to accept it or they think they can get a better match for their skills and circumstances and they keep looking. Uber has no responsibility to try and offer a deal which matches your sense of fairness. No one is being coerced and no one is being exploited.

You're neglecting to consider that other employment opportunities for someone in a given set of circumstances may offer a similarly raw deal, which results in effective exploitation, even if Uber is not solely responsible.

Worse than that, Uber externalizes the cost of commercial vehicle insurance onto the driver. A part-time driver is likely to not carry commercial insurance, due to the expense and to hyperbolic discounting: I'd rather have $X more in my pocket now than protection from a possible lawsuit later. This results in cheap fares at increased personal risk to the driver, who often doesn't fully understand that risk.

Also, these drivers have no ability to negotiate as a group, so they are at a disadvantage against a well-funded corporation that is quickly gaining market power and sets all of these terms.

Re: I was an undercover Uber driver

#56

Post by guessbest »

DigitalSea wrote: post #9

A few months ago when I was in Seattle for work, I caught Uber everywhere. I had so many conversations with Uber drivers about why they drove for Uber, how much money they made and why they weren't doing something else. Needless to say, unless I felt legitimately fearful for my life (which rarely ever happened) I would always rate 5 stars. I realised a lot of these Uber drivers (usually migrants with broken English)…

> Aside: Anyone else find the article sporadically refresh? Made it very difficult to read the article.

Yes. It did for me in Firefox on the desktop, but not on mobile safari. I thought I was crazy when it did it the first time but the second time, I knew it was the citypaper site.

Re: I was an undercover Uber driver

#57

Post by s73v3r »

jasonisalive wrote: post #35
marincounty wrote: post #12

I see people buying 2008 plus four door vechicles(that Uber approves of--on the ever changing list) and not making money and stuck with a four door car. Four door cars are harder to sell than two door cars.(I can't point to a link to prove this, but I used to sell cars, and four door cars were a tough sell.) My problem with Uber is the requirement for a 2008 or newer car, and Uber decides if it's cool enough to repre…

Uber offers a certain deal to potential drivers, they either like it enough to accept it or they think they can get a better match for their skills and circumstances and they keep looking. Uber has no responsibility to try and offer a deal which matches your sense of fairness. No one is being coerced and no one is being exploited.

Again, your point has absolutely no basis in reality. The idea that there is no exploitation is completely false.

Re: I was an undercover Uber driver

#58

Post by maceo »

Human labor is not a commodity.

This was the common sense amongst all working people for most of the 20th century. Samuel Gompers, maybe the most conservative labor leader of his time, said "You cannot weigh the human soul on the same scales as piece of pork." And working people, along with the management class for the most part, understood this to be an undeniable truth. In fact, this piece of common sense was enshrined into US law with the Clayton Act of 1914, which stated "The labor of a human being is not a commodity or article of commerce." But in the last 20 years, as capital has gained the firm upper hand, the common sense understanding has shifted towards the idea that labor is in fact a commodity.

The ideas behind the so-called "on-demand workforce" further solidify the notion that labor is a commodity. After all, you can order an uber ride just as easily as you can order vitamins online.

It's so pervasive that even I, someone born into a union family and a firm believer in the idea of worker solidarity, have to force myself to believe that labor is not a commodity. Why? The business class treated labor as expendable in 1915, just as they do in 2015. Why did working people understand this truth in 1915 but not today? I don't know.

I read a recently released sociology book earlier this year (going crazy looking for the title/author, can't find it), that posits millennials are far more likely than any recent generation to blame themselves for the problems they face. It's part of the reason that the self-help industry is bigger business than it's ever been. It's not always your fault. Our modern economy is built on rotten ideas like labor = commodity. If we want to do something about inequality, it's time that we subject fundamentally unjust ideas like these to a serious critique.

Re: I was an undercover Uber driver

#59

Post by peteretep »

marincounty wrote: post #27
gcr wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "Sidecar" app may be more appropriate for drivers who want to take customers for a ride in their go karts/tractor trailers/dune buggies/mopeds/cat busses/... :)

"FULL VEHICLE LIST "remember - UberBLACK and UberSUV vehicles MUST be black on black. Please note: all vehicles must be 2010 or newer. The TLC is no longer renewing diamonds for vehicles that are older than 2011, so if your diamond is up for renewal, the TLC will not allow you to continue driving a 2010 vehicle. If you don't have TLC plates yet, you must get a 2011 or newer vehicle, as the TLC requires black cars to…

    > "remember - UberBLACK and UberSUV vehicles MUST be black 
    > on black.
Colour? If so, that's not true in practice in Bangkok. All the cars here seem to be Toyota Camry's (or SUVs), and I've had a fair number of white ones.

Re: I was an undercover Uber driver

#60

Post by perfTerm »

guessbest wrote: post #56
DigitalSea wrote: post #9

A few months ago when I was in Seattle for work, I caught Uber everywhere. I had so many conversations with Uber drivers about why they drove for Uber, how much money they made and why they weren't doing something else. Needless to say, unless I felt legitimately fearful for my life (which rarely ever happened) I would always rate 5 stars. I realised a lot of these Uber drivers (usually migrants with broken English)…

> Aside: Anyone else find the article sporadically refresh? Made it very difficult to read the article. Yes. It did for me in Firefox on the desktop, but not on mobile safari. I thought I was crazy when it did it the first time but the second time, I knew it was the citypaper site.

Very strange. For me on mobile safari (iOS 8.whatever's newest) it refreshed six or seven times by the end. Very frustrating. I don't have traffic inspection tools on my iPhone but usually I find weird page refreshes like that are due to advertising.
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