Tesla Energy • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Energy

#51

Post by colinsidoti » Fri, May 01, 2015, 4:57 AM UTC

One thing that might go overlooked: Load shifting could, in theory, lower electric bills such that there's ROI without solar panels.

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Edit for why: On-demand power is expensive. "Spinning up" additional power during the day is more expensive than having certain types of power generation running all the time. In theory, pumping power into a battery at night during non-peak hours will cost less than consuming directly off the grid during the day.

I'm forgetting all the details of energy economics, but IIRC there would also be far less emissions by having consistent load on the grid all day long. Something about the ones we "spin up" also being the worst for the environment.

Re: Tesla Energy

#52

Post by fowkswe » Fri, May 01, 2015, 4:57 AM UTC

iandanforth wrote: post #39

I might spend $480 on electricity per year. I can't see this thing having an ROI within its lifespan. I also don't have solar panels, and have a very reliable power grid. Any reason I should consider buying one?

I know people who spend $480 per month.

Re: Tesla Energy

#53

Post by tlb » Fri, May 01, 2015, 4:58 AM UTC

vanadium wrote: post #17

$3,500. That's crazy good for your average household, on par with natural gas backup generators with half the logistics. I might just be ordering sooner rather than later given some of the grid instabilities in my area over the past year, and through the mid-term in preparation for a solar switch here in Chicago. While Elon might not be the best orator, you can easily derive his authenticity and belief in the product…

$3500 doesn't include the inverter or transfer switch. Transfer switch is maybe $200, and it's not clear what the inverter might cost. It's a nontrivial part, since it would be responsible for daily cycle estimation and cost optimization.

For $3300 you can get a 17 kW generator with inverter and transfer switch [0], which will run for days on a house-sized propane tank. At my house in the woods, we do sometimes get multi-day power outages after storms. Though, to be fair, you need a concrete pad and 30 square feet to install the generator.

It doesn't seem like a competitive backup system, but load shifting is still appealing.

[0] http://www.costco.com/Honeywell-17-kW-Automatic-Standby-Gene...

Re: Tesla Energy

#54

Post by milesf » Fri, May 01, 2015, 4:59 AM UTC

BinaryIdiot wrote: post #49

milesf wrote: post #33

Today is a big deal. Open sourcing the patents to build fully solar-powered electrical grids around the will be a paradigm shift in the power structures of the world. I expect from today onward there will be a full-scale attack from those who stand to lose because of the reduced dependency on oil. First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.

> I expect from today onward there will be a full-scale attack from those who stand to lose because of the reduced dependency on oil. Maybe. But remember we don't have the technology yet to completely move away from fossil fuels. The biggest issue I know of is making Airplanes electric which so far has not proven really feasible (as far as I can find anyway). This solves a huge chunk of issues but there are still ple…

Well, not jets, but propeller craft might be within reach:

http://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/design/power/siemens-e...

Re: Tesla Energy

#55

Post by malandrew » Fri, May 01, 2015, 4:59 AM UTC

How well do you think these would work in RVs when paired with the number of solar panels that fit on top of an RV? Would this work well at burning man vs running a generator?

Re: Tesla Energy

#56

Post by timmaah » Fri, May 01, 2015, 4:59 AM UTC

I doubt they would install one in an RV... but I can dream.

Re: Tesla Energy

#57

Post by amirmansour » Fri, May 01, 2015, 4:59 AM UTC

Implementation of such technologies is exactly what I worked on in grad school, and now I'm happy that a company like Tesla is actually gonna bring it to the masses. Batteries are essentially the "killer app" for the power-grid, and will accelerate the adoption of renewables with stochastic power outputs such as solar and wind. Thank you Tesla!

Re: Tesla Energy

#58

Post by sidcool » Fri, May 01, 2015, 5:00 AM UTC

clamprecht wrote: post #18

sidcool wrote: post #7

I must say Elon is a brilliant engineer but not the best of orators.

As an investor, I'll take this anyday.

Indeed, it seems much more authentic than any crisp marketing mumbo jumbo.

Re: Tesla Energy

#59

Post by adventured » Fri, May 01, 2015, 5:00 AM UTC

JacobAldridge wrote: post #12

Proof, if anyone still needs it, that Tesla is a battery company that builds cars, not a car company that builds batteries.

How big is their battery business compared to their car business?

Re: Tesla Energy

#60

Post by sremani » Fri, May 01, 2015, 5:01 AM UTC

localhost wrote: post #41

I'm going to install a 9kW solar grid on my roof in the next couple of months - capital cost is ~$40K USD. Without the Power Wall, I'd be selling power back to the utility at around $0.10 / kWh, and buying it back at $0.09 / kWh in the evenings. The Power Wall will also let me endure grid outages as well (you can't run your house on your solar panels directly). I'm really curious about what the end-user cost is going…

$40K for 9kW solar sounds really expensive, I advice you to shop a bit or consider Solar lease. I have a 10 kW plant from SolarCity installed in late 2013. It is a prepaid 20 year lease, meaning I own the electricity and they own the panels, and the total cost (including installation, pv, inverters) to me is about 10K.

You seem to be getting a 1 cent more for the electricity, so your only motivation for this must be to have a back-up. But the 7kW powerwall is daily cycle, it may be a OK backup but not beyond a day or two.