Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers • Hacker News Board

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#51

Post by efaref » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 12:40 PM UTC

jobvandervoort wrote: post #38

michaelt wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first they tried to give passionate content providers a way to also make some money. Given that the "passionate content providers" only make 25% of what users pay, I think that's a very generous interpretation. Edit: It doesn't matter if it's Valve or Bethesda or the tooth fairy that takes the remaining 75% - the fact is this system does little to accomplish the goal of "giving passionate content providers a way t…

As far as I understood that was a value set by Bethesda, not Valve.

And okayed by Valve.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#52

Post by jonlucc » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 12:40 PM UTC

jobvandervoort wrote: post #38

michaelt wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first they tried to give passionate content providers a way to also make some money. Given that the "passionate content providers" only make 25% of what users pay, I think that's a very generous interpretation. Edit: It doesn't matter if it's Valve or Bethesda or the tooth fairy that takes the remaining 75% - the fact is this system does little to accomplish the goal of "giving passionate content providers a way t…

As far as I understood that was a value set by Bethesda, not Valve.

The latest I've seen is that Valve gets 30%, then the publisher decides what the rest of the split looks like. If they had released the exact same system, but said the modders get 75%, I think this whole ordeal would have been avoided. It's interesting to me that it was apparently better to give modders nothing than to give them 25%.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#53

Post by danr4 » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 12:41 PM UTC

erikb wrote: post #32

Let's not underestimate what Valve has done here. At first they tried to give passionate content providers a way to also make some money. That's a huge thing. Most modders can tell you about it. Then they screwed up, which can happen if you try something the first time. I think it's okay, but I understand why people are pissed. Then the boss himself comes and talks to people on reddit to see what is going on. He gets…

Actually, I think both launching it and canceling it were ill-conceived moves.

The first - obviously didn't align well with the community's (more like the mod users) intentions. The canceling - Upset quality producing modders who think they should be compensated for their time and effort, and now makes them part "part of valve's greediness" in the eyes of users.

Seems like they didn't think all the way through in both moves.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#54

Post by Aoyagi » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 12:41 PM UTC

M8 wrote: post #29

tormeh wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valve kept 30%, Bethesda kept 45% and modders got the rest. It's not just Valve's fault.

Wow, Bethesda is sure greedy in a self-punishing way. I mean you have to buy the game before buying mods. Surely 5-10% would be enough.

They said something along the lines if "25% is an 'industry standard". I think they referenced to the hats, knives and whatnot being sold on TF2/CS:GO marketplaces.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#55

Post by jonlucc » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 12:43 PM UTC

M8 wrote: post #29

tormeh wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valve kept 30%, Bethesda kept 45% and modders got the rest. It's not just Valve's fault.

Wow, Bethesda is sure greedy in a self-punishing way. I mean you have to buy the game before buying mods. Surely 5-10% would be enough.

I'm sure from Bethesda's perspective, they own the IP and built all of the tools for the modders. It made sense in their meetings, but failed in the community.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#56

Post by mxfh » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 12:43 PM UTC

jobvandervoort wrote: post #38

michaelt wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first they tried to give passionate content providers a way to also make some money. Given that the "passionate content providers" only make 25% of what users pay, I think that's a very generous interpretation. Edit: It doesn't matter if it's Valve or Bethesda or the tooth fairy that takes the remaining 75% - the fact is this system does little to accomplish the goal of "giving passionate content providers a way t…

As far as I understood that was a value set by Bethesda, not Valve.

Yes they wanted 45% so Valve slapped on another 30% while not providing any or minimal QA from Valve or Bethesda for that other 75%?.

As with the Store or Greenlight before outsourcing tasks to the community (reviews/greenlight votes) doesn't mean Valve isn't responsible for the stuff they offer in their store. A 24h hour refund policy is simply laughable when non-waiveable EU consumer rights regulations require 14 days.

The other thing is the quite astronomic payout cap at $100 which means any hobbyist has to sell $400 ore more, depending on taxes before he see any of his efforts compensated. This further shows that Valve was not interested in amateurs but this was all about professionalizing the modding scene to a few contributors.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#57

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 12:43 PM UTC

jobvandervoort wrote: post #38

michaelt wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first they tried to give passionate content providers a way to also make some money. Given that the "passionate content providers" only make 25% of what users pay, I think that's a very generous interpretation. Edit: It doesn't matter if it's Valve or Bethesda or the tooth fairy that takes the remaining 75% - the fact is this system does little to accomplish the goal of "giving passionate content providers a way t…

As far as I understood that was a value set by Bethesda, not Valve.

[deleted]

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#58

Post by giancarlostoro » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 12:44 PM UTC

johnchristopher wrote: post #18

giancarlostoro wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole EA getting off Steam fiasco is something similar, except a new policy in Steam wants 30% of anyone's revenue for DLC even if you setup your own payment system, and distribution system. So Steam would be getting money for doing absolutely nothing.

Doesn't Valve bring in the users and the channel to them ?

Used to, I imagine EA is going to sell games regardless of Steam, they have quite a "portfolio" of games that just "sell themselves". The only reason I ever got on Steam was because of Counter-Strike, I imagine the only reason others hear of Origin is because of games from BioWare and DICE.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#59

Post by bmh100 » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 12:44 PM UTC

I feel that it's appropriate to draw parallels to Twitch.tv streamers here. Twitch streamers basically follow a patronage model. The main video stream is free, though sometimes higher quality options are not. In exchange for a monthly subscription, usually $4.99, viewers gain access to premium features, such as the ability to chat when chat rooms are restricted to subscribers, exclusive emoticons that can be used in any Twitch chat room, and even benefits with other websites and services.

It is not hard to imagine that this business model could have been used with mods. Mods would be prohibited from being paid-only, and an opt-in subscription could be implemented. Users would sample mods risk-free (financially at least) and could support the development of mods they deemed worthy.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#60

Post by madez » Tue, Apr 28, 2015, 12:45 PM UTC

nailer wrote: post #4

gkwelding wrote: post #2

I think Valve/Steam (and Bethesda) really screwed up on this one. Although the idea of modders being fairly compensated for their work is a great idea the execution was poor at best. Only 25% going to the content creators? Really? And a poor returns mechanism, getting a refund gets you banned from the steam store for 7 days to stop abuse. That's a poor returns policy when you're buying things like mods that might be…

Ditto. I'd quite happily pay for mods - they add value, there's more a chance of bugs being fixed, Steam would make installation less of a hassle. But 25% going to the authors is awful. The game's original creators - who already benefit from increased sales - additionally get more of the revenue than the actual mod creator.

It's an example for the perfectly accepted greed in the corporate world.

Valve claims that 30% share is fair while having one of the highest income per employee of any company. That means that their share is too high.

It's more than what the government demands from you, while the government is _much_ more important than Valve is for any business.

The CEO of Valve argues that money steers the community. That's true, and it leads to slavery, drug trafficking criminal organizations and war if the government doesn't regulate. Commercialization does not only have good consequences. Though being able to extort more money out of the masses might skew your vision on that.

Just because it sells doesn't mean people like it. It might be lack of alternatives.

I'm not in principle against money. If you really think that you should, offering a service to make payments to the authors easy might be good. But among many things, DON'T BE RIDICULOUSLY GREEDY.

Let's suppose now that to develop the infrastructure for your service was really expensive and the market volume is not big enough to get the investment back with small percentages.

This is an interesting situation because even if you are "forced" to offer it with 25% share for the author some authors will use it due to lack of alternatives.

Right now I don't have a good solution to this problem. Maybe lower your cut according with the return you already got until you arrived at a fair share? Maybe the best would be if you didn't offer your service at all...