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French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

lemonde.fr

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Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#51

Post by zz1 »

juliendorra wrote: post #37
zz1 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They announced that they are going to relocate, indeed: https://eu.ovh.com/fr/news/articles/a1743.le-gouvernement-ve... And launched a big initiative to federate tech actors against the bill: http://ni-pigeons-ni-espions.fr/ ######## Breaking ######## Octave Klaba finally declares that the bill doesn't compromise the trust chain. https://twitter.com/olesovhcom/status/588666965755092993

They are not really saying they will relocate, and obviously OVH invested dozens, maybe hundreds, of millions in new data centers and fibers. Their business is based on real locations, in real buildings and you can't change that easily. They are saying that it will most likely alter their growth and ability to attracts new customers. They may freeze new data center projects in France, but even that might be unlikely…

They are indeed, and Octave told they are chaning their business plan.

Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#52

Post by pikzen »

higherpurpose wrote: post #44
espadrine wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There always was an issue of people being absent at the Assembly, so that concept was hard to enforce. It is usually not that bad, though. I think the low number is due to allegiance to a party. Socialists felt like they had to vote in agreement to their party leaders to advance their careers, but to avoid backslash from the press and the public, many didn't show up. Their opposition, the right wing, always was big o…

That's unacceptable. In most other countries if a certain number of members is not reached, then you can't vote on the law. What kind of democracy is that where only 5% of the representatives vote on a certain law? Does France have a Constitutional Court at least?

We have a Consitutional Council, and they're somewhat useful. They censored the "graduated riposte" part of the HADOPI law a few years back.

We do not have a Constitutional Court. The Fifth Republic was explicitly created to give more power to the government and as such abstained from creating such courts.

Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#53

Post by chinathrow »

pikzen wrote: post #14

La Quadrature du Net has also affirmed that while they were demonstrating in front of the National Assembly, there were two IMSI Catchers. And the law wasn't even passed yet. Great example of what will happen. ( http://www.franceinfo.fr/actu/politique/article/des-appareil... link in french, can provide a translation if needed) Bernard Cazeneuve, our ministre de l'Intérieur (Tasked with internal security, i.e. police…

Re IMSI Catchers: tear them down when you see them.

Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#54

Post by chinathrow »

gerty wrote: post #3

French National Assembly has 577 delegates. According to Le Monde article, 25 voted for and 5 against. The rest, I suppose, didn't care to show up. This is beyond WTF. I am a client at OVH and Gandi and I hope they send a big FU to the French government and relocate. I am willing to pay a premium for that.

My take is that they won't relocate due to customers needing very low latency to the french eyeball providers.

Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#55

Post by pikzen »

chinathrow wrote: post #53
pikzen wrote: post #14

La Quadrature du Net has also affirmed that while they were demonstrating in front of the National Assembly, there were two IMSI Catchers. And the law wasn't even passed yet. Great example of what will happen. ( http://www.franceinfo.fr/actu/politique/article/des-appareil... link in french, can provide a translation if needed) Bernard Cazeneuve, our ministre de l'Intérieur (Tasked with internal security, i.e. police…

Re IMSI Catchers: tear them down when you see them.

Except that you can't do that when they're in small suitcases held by security officials. Which it was, because the DGSE and CRS were in plain sight near the National Assembly, and there were no signs of IMSI catchers before this demonstration.

Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#56

Post by easytiger »

higherpurpose wrote: post #40
pikzen wrote: post #14

La Quadrature du Net has also affirmed that while they were demonstrating in front of the National Assembly, there were two IMSI Catchers. And the law wasn't even passed yet. Great example of what will happen. ( http://www.franceinfo.fr/actu/politique/article/des-appareil... link in french, can provide a translation if needed) Bernard Cazeneuve, our ministre de l'Intérieur (Tasked with internal security, i.e. police…

> This law was voted by 30 delegates. From a total of 577 This is how democracy dies. Now the 95% other members of the National Assembly will say "that it's not their fault, because they didn't even vote for it!", if some major abuses happen due to this in the future. Despicable.

> This is how democracy dies.

We need a system of government that allows scientists and thinkers to have a weighted power balancing politicians. POliticians cannot be trusted by definition

Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#57

Post by Fiahil »

pikzen wrote: post #14

La Quadrature du Net has also affirmed that while they were demonstrating in front of the National Assembly, there were two IMSI Catchers. And the law wasn't even passed yet. Great example of what will happen. ( http://www.franceinfo.fr/actu/politique/article/des-appareil... link in french, can provide a translation if needed) Bernard Cazeneuve, our ministre de l'Intérieur (Tasked with internal security, i.e. police…

Encrypting all communications is certainly the way to go.

But, I wonder if we can make these systems completely inefficient by flooding them with false positives. Assuming we can figure out the patterns they are looking for in our communications, could this be a possible solution to force them to withdraw they "black boxes"?

Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#58

Post by chinathrow »

Messiah_ wrote: post #48

Does anyone know what kind of metadata they will be logging? Are they logging every HTTP request that comes out of my computer for instance? (Including my user agent, the specific page I visited etc.)

If the law is so permissive as described, I bet someone will go for the full take.

Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#59

Post by pierrec »

RBO2 wrote: post #20

It is not a hasard to have this kind of laws in France. France hasn't known dictatorship for long. French representatives don't know what a Stasi-like security state would look like. It would be harder to have such a law in Germany. The low number of delegates during the vote whows how archaic the French politic system is: they are against their own party so they prefer to be missing. There is little discussion. And…

You probably meant "Its not by chance that France get this kind of law". Because "Not a hasard" (hazard) means "not dangerous", making your whole post confusing.

Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#60

Post by thesimon »

RBO2 wrote: post #20

It is not a hasard to have this kind of laws in France. France hasn't known dictatorship for long. French representatives don't know what a Stasi-like security state would look like. It would be harder to have such a law in Germany. The low number of delegates during the vote whows how archaic the French politic system is: they are against their own party so they prefer to be missing. There is little discussion. And…

>It would be harder to have such a law in Germany. No, we already have this law. Companies with over 10k users need to install a black box to make easy access for the state. There is also a proposal to save communication for 8 weeks, of course just to protect against terrorists.
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