Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling • Hacker News Board

Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#51

Post by darkmighty » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 2:13 PM UTC

bambax wrote: post #22

benev wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cycle commute in a hilly city (Bristol, UK), and I think you're just a little inexperienced at cycling for work. I can cycle hard and sweat, or I can cycle gently and sweat very little. We don't have a shower in the office, but I don't cycle too hard to work, and change shirt when I get in. It's not a problem. On the way home, I cycle hard and have a shower. I can stay completely dry when cycling by simply carrying…

> you're just a little inexperienced at cycling for work It's possible. But please note that I don't exactly go to "work" in my own office where I would have the liberty of changing shirts at will; I visit clients and usually go there for a specific meeting. Maybe I could arrive early and change in the men's room, but that would still be a big hassle. And when I visit two or more clients in the same day, how many shi…

A good approach is to get an e-bike. Use a lot electric assist most of the way to work and pedal the way back. You also get less exhausted when arriving at your destination.

e-bikes are an absolute revolution for biking anywhere that isn't perfectly flat, I wonder what's taking so long for it to take over Europe.

Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#52

Post by bambax » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 2:28 PM UTC

adam-_- wrote: post #50

bambax wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in Paris for 45+ years. The problem with bicycles is that they don't respect road signs or traffic lights, which irritate the hell out of everybody else. It's true that many car drivers are very aggressive towards bicycle riders, but what you fail to mention is that everyone cheers for the car and not the bike... Personnally I ride a motorcycle; it was stolen last year and so I used bikes for about a month…

> - pedaling makes you hot and sweaty; you arrive at the office being a mess This may be the case for some people but if you cycle gently enough and are moderately fit, there's no reason you should be particularly sweaty after arriving. I cycle to work in a cycling/change of top. After I arrive, I wait around 10 minutes to cool down (not always needed, but it's a habit) while checking emails, making a coffee etc. and…

> Hills can usually be conquered fairly easily with the correct set of gears

Clearly, no.

The center of London is very flat compared to Paris, and even going up via Regent Str to Regent's Park or further to King's Cross, it's not very hard. The first thing I do when I go to London is rent a Barclay's bike, and I enjoy it a lot (except that people use the wrong side of the road! what's up with that??!?)

Paris is different. Gears help of course, but you need to be in extremely good shape to get to the top of Montmartre on a bicycle; it's hard enough on foot.

Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#53

Post by revelation » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 2:31 PM UTC

bambax wrote: post #14

bertil wrote: post #4

Financial incentives do not make sense: having a car in Paris is already crazy expensive. During the 20 years I lived there, I cycled everywhere, and I had an almost weekly accident, always at the same three intersections -- cars running into stationary bikes, half the time openly on purpose (there is a bolo for a taxi driver for attempted manslaughter under my name: his plaque was unlegible on the camera, but him ac…

I've lived in Paris for 45+ years. The problem with bicycles is that they don't respect road signs or traffic lights, which irritate the hell out of everybody else. It's true that many car drivers are very aggressive towards bicycle riders, but what you fail to mention is that everyone cheers for the car and not the bike... Personnally I ride a motorcycle; it was stolen last year and so I used bikes for about a month…

It's not for me, so surely it's only useful for tourists

Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#54

Post by bambax » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 2:32 PM UTC

darkmighty wrote: post #51

bambax wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you're just a little inexperienced at cycling for work It's possible. But please note that I don't exactly go to "work" in my own office where I would have the liberty of changing shirts at will; I visit clients and usually go there for a specific meeting. Maybe I could arrive early and change in the men's room, but that would still be a big hassle. And when I visit two or more clients in the same day, how many shi…

A good approach is to get an e-bike. Use a lot electric assist most of the way to work and pedal the way back. You also get less exhausted when arriving at your destination. e-bikes are an absolute revolution for biking anywhere that isn't perfectly flat, I wonder what's taking so long for it to take over Europe.

I did look into that when my motorbike was stolen. I would actually like to have an electric bike, I think it's great.

I was put off by what they say about batteries, that if you don't take great care of it, leave it plugged in at all times, etc., it can die -- it amounts for 70% of the price of the bike.

Better batteries would be great; maybe Tesla will help.

Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#55

Post by bambax » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 2:47 PM UTC

awjr wrote: post #2

When it comes to cycling, a network is only as good as its weakest link. Seville had an eleven fold increase in cycling by 'simply' installing protected cycle lanes. http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/jan/28/seville-cyclin... The golden rule is to segregate. Give cars, bicycles, and feet their own space. DO NOT mix. If somebody can make a choice to put their 6 year old child on a bike and cycle around a city, you…

> If somebody can make a choice to put their 6 year old child on a bike and cycle around a city, you've got it right.

Thinking about it, there is some truth to this. I have kids and would NEVER dream of cycling with them in Paris; we put the bikes in the trunk of the car and go to a big park if we want to ride.

If there were actual segregated bike lanes where there is zero chance of crossing a car (at any speed: I mean NO car) I might cycle with them in the city, and I admit it would be nice.

Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#56

Post by cataflam » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 3:53 PM UTC

sveme wrote: post #29

cataflam wrote: post #18

> Paris has a pollution problem. Instead of the smoke from Gauloise cigarettes and the aroma of freshly baked bread, the air is packed with smog, an issue that got so bad one day last month, the city forcibly halved traffic by allowing only cars with odd-number plates to drive. Of course this could have nothing do to with Germany phasing out its nuclear power plants and having to reopen coal power plants instead. The…

Sorry for being harsh, but suggesting that German coal power plants are responsible for Paris smog is just bollocks, Paris being around 300km from the French-German border. There are ample reasons to criticise the "Energiewende", but Paris smog is definitely not one of them.

As jellicle already mentioned, those distances are quite small for pollution to travel.

Have a look at this recent map of particulate matter concentration during a recent pollution peak for example : https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAr9obuWkAAQgjq.jpg:large

Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#57

Post by cataflam » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 3:55 PM UTC

simias wrote: post #28

cataflam wrote: post #18

> Paris has a pollution problem. Instead of the smoke from Gauloise cigarettes and the aroma of freshly baked bread, the air is packed with smog, an issue that got so bad one day last month, the city forcibly halved traffic by allowing only cars with odd-number plates to drive. Of course this could have nothing do to with Germany phasing out its nuclear power plants and having to reopen coal power plants instead. The…

That seems very far fetched to me. Why would the pollution created by german coal power plants accumulate in and around Paris? In my experience the big pollution episodes in Paris are when there's no wind to wash the smog away. It's definitely localized over the city (not that the air is not polluted elsewhere, it's just generally much worse in Paris).

It travels all over Europe depending on the wind. There is just extra pollution around Paris (mostly because of traffic) so the two of them combined can make it exceed noticeable thresholds.

Another example of a recent particulate matter concentration map : http://www2.prevair.org/sites/prevair.org/files/styles/scald...

Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#58

Post by clarry » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 4:12 PM UTC

iakh wrote: post #33

The weather is too poor here to make this a realistic solution. We try to velib as much as we can, but you can only reliably bike maybe 4 months out of the year if you're lucky. The remaining days are either too wet or too cold or both. No amount of bike lanes or police enforcement can change the generally miserable weather of Paris.

How cold is too cold?

(I cycle round the year in Finland)

Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#59

Post by ptaipale » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 5:07 PM UTC

nothrabannosir wrote: post #16

bambax wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in Paris for 45+ years. The problem with bicycles is that they don't respect road signs or traffic lights, which irritate the hell out of everybody else. It's true that many car drivers are very aggressive towards bicycle riders, but what you fail to mention is that everyone cheers for the car and not the bike... Personnally I ride a motorcycle; it was stolen last year and so I used bikes for about a month…

- pedaling makes you hot and sweaty; you arrive at the office being a mess - when it rains you get super wet, much more than on a motorbike, because you have less protection and you don't carry special rain trousers with you at all times (whereas they're permanently stored on my motorbike) - also, when it rains, if you cover yourself up to avoid the rain, you get even hotter and sweatier I liked your point about peop…

> EDIT: Can't reply to the guy below

You just need to wait a little. The HN implementation apparently tries to slow down flamewars this deep in comment chains :)

Read something else for 15 minutes, then you can reply.

Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#60

Post by hrktb » Wed, Apr 08, 2015, 5:14 PM UTC

Mimu wrote: post #49

hrktb wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The problem with bicycles is that they don't respect road signs or traffic lights The problem with Paris would be more that it's full of parisians. It's very cliche, but sadly true. People are smart and educated but undisciplined, behave unresponsibly, and think about rules as mere guidelines. Being "human" and super lenient is mostly a quality, even when it comes to street rules. Drivers are really bad, bikes don't…

> "Public transport would have a boost in use justifying more investment". There are already overcrowded like crazy, what more people do you want? As a daily user, please do make more people inside my train. It's rare but it happened several times that I had to let go 4 trains before giving up and going home, because there were already too many people in it. You want less cars on the road? Maybe start delivering qual…

I feel you. I am on a line (RER A) where morning trains get 10~15 min late by default. One of the train slot just gets cancelled every now and then for no reason, and the main cause of problems are "exploitation accidents" (= we screwed up).

And still there seem to be efforts to cut costs and all the money might be going to building new lines instead of making the existing stuff work correctly.

I the SNCF/ratp doesn't get it's back on the wall I feel they'll never do anything to make things better.

BTW commuting by car also seems to be an everyday mayhem with crazy long road works, incidents everyday and overall aggressiveness from the (motor)bikes, delivery vans and inraged drivers.