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The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much

nytimes.com

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Re: The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much

#51
post #4

The short version: "A major factor driving increasing costs is the constant expansion of university administration."

At the university where a friend works, a huge amount of the staffing expenditure is on (rarely well-run) IT. Another big chunk of the staff is employed to essentially wrangle the part-time faculty who are on short contracts and don't stay for more than one or two years. I think that in many cases universities have turned to hiring staff to circumvent many of the political problems of trying to manage professors (edi…

Someone was arguing to me recently that this has all come about because of some court cases in the 80s and 90s. They claim that one case in particular, between Notre Dame and the faculty, was a turning point.

The story has been related to me like this: Traditionally universities were heavily influenced by the faculty, who had big sway over big decisions. This all came to a head in the 80s when faculty and the administration disagreed over some big issue (like who should be the next president, I believe). The faculty and administration went to court, and the court ruled that the faculty were employees and the administration, essentially, had absolute power and could appoint who they wanted.

This precedent drastically changed how universities were run, and since then faculty has basically been eviscerated (both from a power standpoint and a pay standpoint, ala adjuncts) and universities are now run like businesses (top down management vs. a more distributed/democratic form previously). I haven't been able to find the court case or citations to back this up (closest is a book[1]), but it wouldn't surprise me if true. It would explain a lot that has happened, and if you combine it with other factors like government backed student loans, it's no surprise universities are cash cows run by feudal lords.

[1] https://books.google.es/books?id=PiPktdWvGvkC

Re: The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much

#52
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to college in Sweden and had all that you had, I didn't pay anything. I received about 1000-1500$ a month for attending school from the government.

I like the way Sweden does many things, but: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Tax... It's political suicide in the US to raise taxes in any significant way, and so we suffer through the nonsense we've got.

It's important to put numbers in perspective. Every US citizen spends $98k over their expected lifetime on the military, for example. An average Swedish citizen spends $46k on state funded university and higher education over their expected lifetime (which is only slightly higher).

That said, it should be obvious that the Sweden model doesn't suit conditions in the US (one is a small country in Northern Europe, one is almost a continent), but one should be able to discuss these things without the straw man of how state spending is impossible in the US. After all, military spending is possible, and that is probably the most socialistic system of them all, in the sense that it is state planned and politically mandated.

Re: The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much

#53

Part of it is also a social signaling factor. Because eduction is a superior good and a positional good, there's pressure for it to get ever more expensive (at least on paper). After all, if the Johnsons' kids are going to a $40,000/year school, you want to make sure your little darling goes to at least a $45,000/year school. The secret is that many elite colleges give such generous financial aid that only the extrem…

> The secret is that many elite colleges give such generous financial aid that only the extremely wealthy are paying full freight. But it still makes the college looks good to have an astronomically high sticker price. Unfortunately, this is not at all true for grad school. I'm from India and a large swathe of my friends from college are studying in the US without any sort of aid.

What subjects are your friends studying?

I did my PhD in physics in the USA, and for all of my fellow physics grad students, we not only had free tuition but we were given jobs (they didn't pay much but it was enough to live on). Ie, students were either given Research Assistant roles from their Adviser's funding, or Teaching Assistant roles by the department. The lucky ttudents with fellowships didn't need to teach at all and could focus full time from day one on research. (Of course this gives those fellowship students more ability to write papers early in their career, boosting their ability to win more fellowships later on, creating academias's own 1%/99% inequality, but that's a separate issue).

This was physics, and my understanding is that this is the case for most of the sciences.

Re: The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much

#54
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the way Sweden does many things, but: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Tax... It's political suicide in the US to raise taxes in any significant way, and so we suffer through the nonsense we've got.

It's important to put numbers in perspective. Every US citizen spends $98k over their expected lifetime on the military, for example. An average Swedish citizen spends $46k on state funded university and higher education over their expected lifetime (which is only slightly higher). That said, it should be obvious that the Sweden model doesn't suit conditions in the US (one is a small country in Northern Europe, one i…

Great datapoint! Source?

Re: The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much

#55
post #21

I think a more interesting question is, how has the ROI of college changed over the past 40 years? The cost has gone up much faster than inflation. The number of people going to college has also risen dramatically. This means there are a lot more college educated peers competing with you in the workplace. This means that the college degree is not as rare, and thus has lower scarcity value. Finally, I think it's quite…

One criticism I have of education systems is that they structurally encourage only superficially studying content. Let's take my compilers class as an example. I go to a 75 minute lecture 2 times a week and I do about 4 hours of homework a week. I do this over 18 weeks. That's only roughly 120 hours of study over the course of a semester. That's only as many hours as most full time employees work every 3 weeks! And t…

I'm never asked about my education.. Which has been handy as I don't have a college degree. I was fortunate and managed to kick-start my career after getting a foot in at a rather prominent company. Once the work history starts to establish you're pretty free to blaze your own path. That has been my own personal experience.

Re: The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much

#56
post #21

I think a more interesting question is, how has the ROI of college changed over the past 40 years? The cost has gone up much faster than inflation. The number of people going to college has also risen dramatically. This means there are a lot more college educated peers competing with you in the workplace. This means that the college degree is not as rare, and thus has lower scarcity value. Finally, I think it's quite…

One criticism I have of education systems is that they structurally encourage only superficially studying content. Let's take my compilers class as an example. I go to a 75 minute lecture 2 times a week and I do about 4 hours of homework a week. I do this over 18 weeks. That's only roughly 120 hours of study over the course of a semester. That's only as many hours as most full time employees work every 3 weeks! And t…

> Let's take my compilers class as an example. I go to a 75 minute lecture 2 times a week and I do about 4 hours of homework a week. I do this over 18 weeks. That's only roughly 120 hours of study over the course of a semester. That's only as many hours as most full time employees work every 3 weeks!

The comparison doesn't seem fair. First, I suppose you have others classes at the same time. And if you don't, you're free to do additional work on your own. In any case, hard concepts take time to sink in. You're better off learning this over a longer period of time.

Besides, don't think full time employees do meaningful intellectual work 8 hours a day. There are always a lot of distraction. And even when coding, it's not the same as writing tons of boilerplate code than understanding new complicated concepts.

> And the sad thing is, I imagine if I spent 3 weeks reading a compiler book, reading though the source of lex and yacc, and implementing some kind of basic compiler using them, I'd be a much better programmer than what we're doing

Are you sure that you'd be able to do that? supervised education helps you to pace yourself, focus on what is important and to keep motivated over the long run. The actual content is maybe the least important.

Besides, going through lex and yacc sources sounds like a huge waste of time for someone who wants to learn about compilation. There may be some value in this, but it should be last on your priority list.

Re: The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much

#57
American universities aren't just about education. Or even research, for that matter. They're often about providing a "life experience" for undergraduates. So you have a huge investment in sports, entertainment, and living facilities that are basically unheard of in other countries. Plus, all sort of administrators and advisors who help students in a variety of different ways.

These add up to a great experience, and arguably make the education better. But they also reflect how little the US government provides vs. other countries. And how much students depend on the university to provide services that in other countries would be provided by other agencies. And how an American university is expected to provide much more than just classrooms, lectures, and research.

I graduated from two American universities (MIT and Northwestern). Each of these had an on-site medical facility (unnecessary in countries with nationalized health insurance), financial aid offices (unnecessary in places where the tuition is lower, or handled by centralized government agencies), student-only shuttle services (unnecessary where public transportation is good), sports teams (unheard of outside of the US), and a wide variety of extra-curriculars (again, basically non-existent outside of the US). Each of these requires a bunch of administrators.

The building in which I did my PhD had a huge support staff. In an Israeli or European university, I think that the 15-20 secretaries, planners, and managers would have been replaced by 3-4 people. Overworked and underpaid people, mind you, but that's how you keep costs low. And my office (as a graduate student) in the US was positively opulent compared to what you'll find abroad.

I used to think that student aid in the US was a great thing. But I do believe that American universities have basically decided that they can raise tuition without any penalty, because almost no one pays that sum out of pocket -- and everyone else just takes on crushing debt for many years to follow.

Now, the fact is that I had a blast in my undergrad years, and my experience editing the student newspaper led directly to my current career. But having met many students and graduates in Israel (where I live), where universities are places to learn and do research, rather than have "life experiences," I'm not at all convinced that the added expense and overhead are worthwhile.

Re: The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much

#60
post #4

The short version: "A major factor driving increasing costs is the constant expansion of university administration."

What's responsible for the constant expansion of university administration?

Yeah this piece certainly did not explain the real reason college tuition costs so much.
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