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American students head to Germany for free college

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Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#51

Post by davidw »

galfarragem wrote: post #41
Htsthbjig wrote: post #24

Education in Europe is not free. You pay with your qualifications. If your university grades are not good enough, you go out fast. I studied engineering in Europe. When I went to Boston or London to work it was like I was the boss or something because I was much better prepared than Americans or British. But Americans have much better job opportunities that make them better than Europeans after working some time in a…

I was much better prepared than Americans or British. But Americans have much better job opportunities that make them better than Europeans after working some time in any field. Great comment. Anyway I will never leave Europe for US/Canada/Australia[1]. I've visited some family in the latter and I feel that the advantages of these countries are not enough to make me live there. Exchanging peace of mind and a huge dec…

> US/Canada/Australia

And in the next sentence, you remind us that Germany is not Europe.

Before the Canadians lynch you, you should amend your comment to point out that you are very cognizant of the differences between the US and Canada! Australia's different from the others in its own ways, not least of which is that it's on the other side of the planet.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#52

Post by doyoulikeworms »

purplelobster wrote: post #47
doyoulikeworms wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public university used to be cheap. In the 1960's, tuition & fees at a UC school was less than $2000 (2015 dollars) per year. In the 1950's, it was less than $750 per year.[1][2] Today, tuition & fees at a UC will cost you $15,000 per year. In order to completely pay for tuition and fees, the state of California would have to increase revenue $3 billion per year. Or increase tax revenues by just 3%.[1][3] I, as a cit…

The thing is, PPP is only for things you have to actually buy. Where I live, salaries and PPP is lower than in the US where I lived before. But it's not that simple. Does PPP take into account that I got my 5 year education for free? Actually I received roughly $400/month to go to university. Which also means I don't need a college fund for my kids. Does it reflect that health care is free and I don't have to even th…

I completely agree. Any time you try to turn complex social systems into a simple number, things are necessarily lost in translation. The numbers represent simply what they represent, and nothing more.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#53

Post by _stephan »

DrinkWater wrote: post #46

I would have killed to get the chance to study in the US. American students are far more complex and broad in their knowledge. And that's a very good thing you shouldn't underestimate. It helps a lot in your career. Germany loves hierarchy and "conservative" thinking. And that is reflected in every aspect of society, even academic education. The main focus is to produce people that Germany needs. We have a shitload o…

These broad statements seem ridiculous to me. If you're speaking from personal experience, you should at least add which subject you studied and at which Uni/FH you studied.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#54

Post by walshemj »

drvd wrote: post #18
tsotha wrote: post #2

How could this possibly make sense to German taxpayers?

Germans are not so obsessed about not paying taxes like e.g. Americans or Swiss. Nobody likes to pay taxes and everybody complains about the high taxes. But I think (actually hope!) that Germans understand (if only unconsciously) that happiness is much more depending on getting old without fear of poverty, knowing to be treated if ill, being able to go safely outside anytime anywhere, not dropping out of society if b…

Really? you regularly see reports of German Pensioners getting caught trying to smuggle large amounts of cash to Lichtenstein.

Though Germany isn't as bad as Italy or Greece

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#55

Post by Maakuth »

Pirate-of-SV wrote: post #36
Htsthbjig wrote: post #24

Education in Europe is not free. You pay with your qualifications. If your university grades are not good enough, you go out fast. I studied engineering in Europe. When I went to Boston or London to work it was like I was the boss or something because I was much better prepared than Americans or British. But Americans have much better job opportunities that make them better than Europeans after working some time in a…

> Education in Europe is not free. You pay with your qualifications. If your university grades are not good enough, you go out fast. Could you be a little more specific? The size of Europe, America and Asia is too huge for statements like that. There are definitely universities in Europe that are more similar to some in the US than other universities in Europe. I'm a student in Sweden and I have not experienced anyth…

It's the same in Finland, at least in universities. If you don't pass your courses, the state stops paying the student benefits[1], but you can stay at the university. There is another, very low number of courses you need to pass every year in order to stay in, but that is very low indeed, it's only meant to keep registers clean of people not studying at all.

1: That's right, Finns are paid to study. I think students in most of the Nordic countries are.

edit: formatting

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#56

Post by mironathetin »

DrinkWater wrote: post #46

I would have killed to get the chance to study in the US. American students are far more complex and broad in their knowledge. And that's a very good thing you shouldn't underestimate. It helps a lot in your career. Germany loves hierarchy and "conservative" thinking. And that is reflected in every aspect of society, even academic education. The main focus is to produce people that Germany needs. We have a shitload o…

Well, that sounds as if you want to turn around the invitation for foreign students?

As the (currently) first post states, americans love the safety of germany and the free education - and the beer. I encourage everybody to come here, then take home what you appreciated and make american universities a better place too (I write this under the impression of suicide reports at MIT and poisoning of competing lab colleagues at stanford, the murder of a visiting german student in Missoula last year). Ignore the german hierarchies. I wouldn't put it as drastic as DrinkWater, but german universities have their little kings at the tops indeed. But this doesn't concern students, only scientists.

The atmosphere is much less competitive here, more a friendly competition that supports teamwork and good science - as it should be.

Have a good time everybody.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#57

Post by gambiting »

Pirate-of-SV wrote: post #36
Htsthbjig wrote: post #24

Education in Europe is not free. You pay with your qualifications. If your university grades are not good enough, you go out fast. I studied engineering in Europe. When I went to Boston or London to work it was like I was the boss or something because I was much better prepared than Americans or British. But Americans have much better job opportunities that make them better than Europeans after working some time in a…

> Education in Europe is not free. You pay with your qualifications. If your university grades are not good enough, you go out fast. Could you be a little more specific? The size of Europe, America and Asia is too huge for statements like that. There are definitely universities in Europe that are more similar to some in the US than other universities in Europe. I'm a student in Sweden and I have not experienced anyth…

I know how engineering courses look like in Poland. Universities are 100% free, but they have absolutely no qualms about kicking out weaker students. Electrical engineering course at any of the largest universities in Poland will enroll 300-400 people,but 200 of them will fail the first year. The last year is usually finished by In contrast, I studied in UK and getting through university at an Engineering course was very easy if you didn't care about grades too much. You could even fail an exam completely and still be allowed to continue, which is unthinkable in Poland.

The main difference is, that in Poland all that matters is the diploma,not the grades you got, while in UK a diploma with a third or 2-2 grade is nearly worthless. So I think that Universities in Poland are much more careful about actually letting people graduate, while in UK pretty much anyone can graduate,but poor grades make their education worthless.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#58

Post by walshemj »

randunel wrote: post #49
lentil_soup wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I studied engineering in Europe. When I went to Boston or London to work it was like I was the boss or something because I was much better prepared than Americans or British." What do you mean by "I studied engineering in Europe"? London is in Europe.

I work in London. The natives here consider the UK as a separate entity from Europe. They talk about the mainland as Europe, and compare themselves to "Europeans", not to "other Europeans". This is the British culture of "us vs them", or "we are too good to be associated with you" that I live in now :P

You weren't shocked by the low status of Engineers in the UK.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#59

Post by douche »

cJ0th wrote: post #10
tsotha wrote: post #2

How could this possibly make sense to German taxpayers?

I don't think it is free for foreigners. It is just that those fees you have to pay (maybe a few hundred Euros per term[0]) are nothing compared to what it costs to attend an US university. However, since more and more Germans want to go to uni some fields of study are jammed with students in recent years. This in turn means that the quality of education goes down (for example: not enough capacities for tutors and no…

All of these fees combined are peanuts compared to the cost of attending any U.S. public university (I'm most familiar with UMaine and UNH, which is $10-15k, and around $30k for non-state residents, in tuition). Private colleges are often on the order of $35-50k for tuition.

It's really outrageous. 35 years ago when my parents were in college, they could make enough money doing typical college-kid jobs (waiting tables, working summers, the same sort of things college students do now), to support themselves AND pay their tuition. I'm a software developer, working full-time, and I don't clear enough money after taxes in a year to pay for a year of tuition at the college I graduated from, unless I were going to be living in a van down by the river and surviving on free pizza provided by student groups.

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