I code like a girl • Hacker News Board

Re: I code like a girl

#51

Post by MollyR » Tue, Mar 17, 2015, 1:50 PM UTC

rmc wrote: post #46

MollyR wrote: post #24

Why can't we just code like professionals ? Sidenote: Disclaimer: I was heavily influenced by my Biology professors. I don't think society evolved in vacuum separate from genetic evolution. So while I don't appreciate insulting people by gender. I do however think there are gender differences. Another person on HN linked me to this documentary, which opened my mind. https://vimeo.com/19707588

> Why can't we just code like professionals ? What does that mean? Suit and tie? Clean shaven, short back and sides?

I guess not professional appearance but professional standards.

Ex.I might expect a professional python programmer to follow PEP8 code style.

I think rather than coding like boy or coding like girl, we should be aspiring to be professional or at least competent . That's the far bigger and inclusive problem.

Re: I code like a girl

#52

Post by andyjohnson0 » Tue, Mar 17, 2015, 1:51 PM UTC

MollyR wrote: post #39

tormeh wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likewise Leibniz was the first computer scientist. As if anyone cares.

I care. I like to know the truth not the marketing angle. Do you mind explaining ?

Probably a reference to Leibniz having discovered/invented the binary number system back in the 1679 [1]. He also worked on theories of algorithms and designed calculating machines [2].

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_number#History

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gottfried_Wilhelm_Leibniz#Compu...

Re: I code like a girl

#53

Post by kazinator » Tue, Mar 17, 2015, 1:51 PM UTC

rmc wrote: post #46

MollyR wrote: post #24

Why can't we just code like professionals ? Sidenote: Disclaimer: I was heavily influenced by my Biology professors. I don't think society evolved in vacuum separate from genetic evolution. So while I don't appreciate insulting people by gender. I do however think there are gender differences. Another person on HN linked me to this documentary, which opened my mind. https://vimeo.com/19707588

> Why can't we just code like professionals ? What does that mean? Suit and tie? Clean shaven, short back and sides?

Professional means getting paid, but there is a nuance of doing a proper job to deserve pay (even if there is no pay); a FOSS project that hasn't received even a dime in donations can be professionally developed.

Re: I code like a girl

#54

Post by mhurron » Tue, Mar 17, 2015, 1:51 PM UTC

Svip wrote: post #19

smhenderson wrote: post #12

A good read. Although I was surprised the grandmother of programming, Ada Lovelace, wasn't mentioned. Ada Lovelace, was an English mathematician and writer chiefly known for her work on Charles Babbage's early mechanical general-purpose computer, the Analytical Engine. Her notes on the engine include what is recognised as the first algorithm intended to be carried out by a machine. Because of this, she is often descr…

As interesting as Ada Lovelace's and Charles Babbage's story is, their efforts have had little (if any) influence on the computer we know today. In a sense, they are not completely relevant when talking about modern computing. I also feel Lovelace tend to distract the subject on women in computing.

> I also feel Lovelace tend to distract the subject on women in computing.

Given that, as someone has already mentioned in the comments, there are people that hold the view that women are always at least second best to a man in regards to ability in computing because they are female, the fact that the first 'programmer' did so without documentation on a machine that existed in theory was a woman is very much central to the subject.

Re: I code like a girl

#55

Post by fmitchell0 » Tue, Mar 17, 2015, 1:51 PM UTC

> It becomes increasingly important to value each member of a programming team regardless of gender, age, race, or creed to attract and keep the best minds to build our future software.

And this is actually what you don't want to do. You don't want to ignore gender, age, race, or creed. You want people to understand it, be open to the value it brings, connect with others outside their comfort zone, and embrace the differences. Doing things 'regardless' is how we've got here in the first place. We are all different. Ignoring those differences is not helping the problem.

Re: I code like a girl

#56

Post by _bfhp » Tue, Mar 17, 2015, 1:52 PM UTC

maaaats wrote: post #11

I've heard You punch like a girl , You drive like a girl and similar before, but never You code like a girl . Which is good, I guess.

Coding doesn't involve as much kinetic and immediate action, and I can't imagine it being infantilized. When it comes to violence, you can be weak, and so "like a girl". "Driving like a woman" I think means to drive naively, like a child, which women have generally been seen as equivalent to for thousands of years. (Edit: not that I agree with any of that, of course; it's how gender is constructed)

Re: I code like a girl

#57

Post by mrits » Tue, Mar 17, 2015, 1:52 PM UTC

ajuc wrote: post #41

rmc wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes people claim that women are biologically, statistically, just not as good/interested as men at programming/technology, and point to current gender balance in tech as evidence of this ("There's a reason there's lots of male programmers, men must be just better!") Remembering some of these women, and the early history like this, is very relevant today to show that that's nonsense.

It's not nonsense. Modern women are statisticaly less interested in programming. That's because boys 20 years ago got c-64 or PC because they wanted to play games, and girls 20 years ago got barbies. Turns out barbie doesn't have the same side effects.

I got basketballs and golf clubs. I had to beg my dad to get me my first amiga 500. He agreed only because he thought I'd might get rich from it one day. So my interest, to the best that I can tell, was self originated.

Re: I code like a girl

#58

Post by kazinator » Tue, Mar 17, 2015, 1:52 PM UTC

MollyR wrote: post #45

liotier wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why can't we just code like professionals ? Because we put our heart in it - so we code like amateurs. The best professionals are amateurs who just happen to be paid.

Is it fair to say putting your heart into something makes you an amateur at something ? I dunno, this feels off. Did I misunderstand the analogy ?

The professional puts the customer's heart into something, not his own.

My heart says I should spend the next ten weeks optimizing this interesting function that gets called once a year, because all higher priority tasks look like boring grunt work.

Re: I code like a girl

#59

Post by levosmetalo » Tue, Mar 17, 2015, 1:53 PM UTC

MollyR wrote: post #24

Why can't we just code like professionals ? Sidenote: Disclaimer: I was heavily influenced by my Biology professors. I don't think society evolved in vacuum separate from genetic evolution. So while I don't appreciate insulting people by gender. I do however think there are gender differences. Another person on HN linked me to this documentary, which opened my mind. https://vimeo.com/19707588

> Why can't we just code like professionals ?

That would pretty much mean the death of almost every open source project that depends on unpaid amateurs.

Re: I code like a girl

#60

Post by _bfhp » Tue, Mar 17, 2015, 1:54 PM UTC

ianstallings wrote: post #40

On the topic of equality in general - As an old man and a father of a 22 year old woman let me tell you what I've observed - women don't need your help and when you act like they need your protection you're no better than someone who treats them as weaklings. It's a fine line and imho the best bet is to just treat them as you would anyone else.

Whether or not someone is "act[ing] like [women] need [their] protection" is relative assessment and you haven't even accused anyone of fitting the description.