Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

To tip or not to tip?

aeon.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–56 of 56 posts

Re: To tip or not to tip?

#51

Post by maratd »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #47
maratd wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But it would also almost certainly be considerably lower. No, it wouldn't. It would be exactly the same. Because their employer knows exactly how much they will get in tips and subtracted that same amount from their salary. The cost of labor is constant, regardless of how you divide it.

Frankly, you're just flat out wrong on this. If the employer can capture this income, they will. You're welcome to present evidence otherwise.

If the employer captures too much income, the employee quits. That's what controls the amount the employer can capture and that's the labor wage for the work. This is econ 101.

Re: To tip or not to tip?

#52

Post by acjohnson55 »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #43
acjohnson55 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're suggesting that, in the status quo, some aspect of the tipping system is tilting the distribution of revenue toward servers instead of employers. Why do you think so?

Yep, that's what I'm saying. If servers were paid entirely by the employers directly, they'd be paid the least amount that got an acceptable level of employee. Same as all other service industry jobs. Since the payment was coming from the employer, it would be included in the meal price. Meal price is a competitive factor for restaurants, and all else being equal, those restaurants with lower meal prices will do bett…

But there's already a free market for labor, wage floor notwithstanding. Anybody who's paying above the minimum wage for servers already has to compete on wages. And they have to compete with other industries as well. Tipping simply allows the equilibrium base wage (and even the wage floor itself, by policy) to be lower than it would otherwise be.

Plenty of study shows that generosity or level of service have very little to do with tipping on the whole. People typically tip based on personal habit relative to their interpretation of local custom. (I can try to find sources if you doubt this.) I don't think there's any reason to believe that customers don't take gratuity, and tax for that matter, into account when deciding when and where to dine out.

I'm not suggesting that the situation would be the exact same for every server if tipping went away. Some would benefit, others would suffer. On the whole, it would be less discriminatory. But I don't see why we would expect to see a macro change in waitstaff income.

Re: To tip or not to tip?

#53

Post by [deleted] »

maratd wrote: post #51
waterlesscloud wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, you're just flat out wrong on this. If the employer can capture this income, they will. You're welcome to present evidence otherwise.

If the employer captures too much income, the employee quits. That's what controls the amount the employer can capture and that's the labor wage for the work. This is econ 101.

[deleted]

Re: To tip or not to tip?

#54

Post by tptacek »

maratd wrote: post #51
waterlesscloud wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, you're just flat out wrong on this. If the employer can capture this income, they will. You're welcome to present evidence otherwise.

If the employer captures too much income, the employee quits. That's what controls the amount the employer can capture and that's the labor wage for the work. This is econ 101.

Doesn't econ 101 have something to say about Pareto Efficiency, or is that a later course?

Re: To tip or not to tip?

#55

Post by acjohnson55 »

scotty79 wrote: post #50
joesmo wrote: post #15

"Tipping looks like an anachronistic hangover from a time when restaurant staff were the lowest of the low" This is unfortunately still the case in America. I can't believe the author writes a long, elaborate article mentioning tipping in America without mentioning the minimum wage for food service in the US. Federally, it's currently $2.13/hr though employers are required to compensate employees so they make at leas…

> "Tipping looks like an anachronistic hangover from a time when restaurant staff were the lowest of the low" > This is unfortunately still the case in America. Which is enabled by tipping.

I argued on another HN article about tipping that it's better to change the law to protect lower-income employees first, and then change the custom, as opposed to trying to fight the custom by screwing over your server and hoping the law will eventually change. Fairly sure diners and businesses would change their tipping behavior pretty quickly to accommodate any change in the law.

Re: To tip or not to tip?

#56

Post by joshmn »

ghrifter wrote: post #19
joshmn wrote: post #7

I waited tables for a while at a range of restaurants from very nice steakhouses to exceptionally-high-profile clubs. I'm open to questions about my experiences with tipping, horror stories, weird guests, and my genuine thoughts on the matter.

If you have a repeat customer that is nice, but doesn't tip (or tips very poorly, like say 5%) does the staff treat him with less quality?

These do exist, and they always receive warm welcomes. They're considered like family.
Post reply on HN