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How a 25-Year-Old Investor Spurred Lumber Liquidators’ Plunge

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51–60 of 91 posts

Re: How a 25-Year-Old Investor Spurred Lumber Liquidators’ Plunge

#51
post #7

This is basically describing a much smaller scale version, with much lower stakes, of what Bill Ackman has been trying to do to Herbalife for the past couple years. He even placed a bet against Carl Icahn ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCZRk1lL90Q ), and they've traded "winnings" and "losings" in the hundreds of millions over the past two years.

This is what a lot of activist hedge funds do in general.

Re: How a 25-Year-Old Investor Spurred Lumber Liquidators’ Plunge

#52
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And while 60 Minutes is entirely untrustworthy ... Wait, what? Any proof for that statement? How come they are still on air? Why wasn't their parent broadcaster sued out of existence, if what you claim is true?

The first one that comes to mind was their fraudulent reporting about the audi 5000 and "sudden acceleration" in the 80s. Their lies almost destroyed an entire company. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_100#Reported_sudden_uninte...

And before that, in 1980, a hatchet job on the Jeep, must have been the CJ-7 both because of the date and how difficult it was for them to roll it, even using robot drivers that manipulated the steering wheel twice as fast as a human can while gunning the engine.

There was plenty of less overt stuff in the '70s. Then you might mosey through this list, which only has the worst of the worst: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/60_Minutes#Controversies

Per that, it took 15 years for Audi sales to recover.

Re: How a 25-Year-Old Investor Spurred Lumber Liquidators’ Plunge

#53
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah this is pretty great. Good work and good result. My only caveat would be unscrupulous people spreading unfounded rumors or uninformed opinions passing as fact which could result in innocent companies suffering from lack or rigor on the did of citizen investigators. At least it appears sixty minutes did son of their own investigation --althouh I imagine they went in with guilt in mind, which worked out in this ca…

Without fact finding you end up with results like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Lebed Kid used message boards to pump and dump stocks until the SEC intervened.

Recent similar story of kid with penny stocks and internet hype: http://www.theverge.com/2014/12/3/7319277/whiz-kid-penny-sto...

Re: How a 25-Year-Old Investor Spurred Lumber Liquidators’ Plunge

#54
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this the laminate, PVC planks, or some other that you're referring to? Thanks.

It's the laminate. Here's a pic: http://i.imgur.com/vF4zo56.jpg

Thanks again for the response and the photo. I was expecting the more inexpensive compressed fiber-board stuff. I'm replacing old flooring in my house, and I want to avoid anything like what you described.

Sorry you had to deal with that. I worked with some formaldehyde containing (out gassing) material once. It was not fun. After I started developing nose bleeds we got that crap out of our lab and started using masks around it.

Re: How a 25-Year-Old Investor Spurred Lumber Liquidators’ Plunge

#55
Is it legal and ethical to deeply research a firm until you find very serious problems, then short their stock, then announce your findings?

It feels... OK to me. For some reason this strikes me as a surprising way to make money. Never heard of this before now.

Re: How a 25-Year-Old Investor Spurred Lumber Liquidators’ Plunge

#56
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And while 60 Minutes is entirely untrustworthy ... Wait, what? Any proof for that statement? How come they are still on air? Why wasn't their parent broadcaster sued out of existence, if what you claim is true?

Benghazi coverage, the Bush National Guard story coverage, their NSA/Snowden fluff piece, etc. It's not hard to find credible criticism of 60 Minutes, even if you can't tell just by watching it. http://www.cjr.org/behind_the_news/60_minutes_bad_run.php

Lara Logan was suspended from the show for months after airing her report, and the show issued an on air retraction and apology about that story after it broke that the main person they interviewed for the piece was lying.

Re: How a 25-Year-Old Investor Spurred Lumber Liquidators’ Plunge

#57
post #2

The idea of private citizens both being able to investigate companies for wrong doing and earn income for their work appeals to me. No lawsuit, no legal process. After doing some investigations, just some quick transactions on a trading account, and a blog post later.

There was a case study of short selling on NPR's Planet Money a few weeks ago: http://www.npr.org/2015/01/30/382587945/winning-at-short-sel... Basically, the guy discovered a Chinese test prep company (think College Board) that had recently started to be listed on American stock exchanges, and discovered that their payment system returned an error. He emailed their support address, and it bounced. He hired a guy on C…

> He shorted the ever living crap out of the stock, broke the news, and won big.

Wait, I thought shorting meant he effectively sold shares to some other, unfortunate, investor.

It sounds like he participated in a pump and dump scheme/scam.

Re: How a 25-Year-Old Investor Spurred Lumber Liquidators’ Plunge

#58

Is it legal and ethical to deeply research a firm until you find very serious problems, then short their stock, then announce your findings? It feels... OK to me. For some reason this strikes me as a surprising way to make money. Never heard of this before now.

It's not only ethical, it's about the only reason short selling hasn't been outlawed.

Re: How a 25-Year-Old Investor Spurred Lumber Liquidators’ Plunge

#59

Is it legal and ethical to deeply research a firm until you find very serious problems, then short their stock, then announce your findings? It feels... OK to me. For some reason this strikes me as a surprising way to make money. Never heard of this before now.

Its definitely not insider trading. It's a reasonable expectation of research conducted in the public scope.

It's also good investment work. You can get by with a prospectus and a Morningstar rating and call it a day, but if you're going to invest in anything in the immediate term you damn well better be ready to do your homework. One day its a blue chip. The next, its on 60 Minutes and your future is in jeopardy.

Re: How a 25-Year-Old Investor Spurred Lumber Liquidators’ Plunge

#60
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This exists - many manufacturing companies get hit up by chemical engineers who discover something in their product, backed by a lawyer. They get damages + fees and the product gets a "This is known to cause cancer in the State of California".

To be fair, everything gets "This is known to cause cancer in the State of California". The only thing that label tells you is that the state of California likes to pointlessly sacrifice lab animals.

And what would the label say if it was Texas? "Materials meet FDA GRAS specifications?"

Oh wait there wouldn't be one.

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