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Where Is Germany's Gold?

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Re: Where Is Germany's Gold?

#51

Post by joshfraser »

CDRdude wrote: post #48
ekianjo wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So now, gold prices have been weak for a few years, so they have to come up with a new narrative Not sure about the narrative you describe, but it's a clear fact that it's harder and harder to buy gold anonymously, without declaring to the State where you stash it. Makes it practical the day they come to get it back and give you worthless paper instead.

If I was a government, I wouldn't even want to take it back. Storing gold seems like a hassle compared to storing the equivalent value in regular currency.

Gold actually has intrinsic value. Fiat currency does not.

Re: Where Is Germany's Gold?

#52

Post by xenadu02 »

kansface wrote: post #46
lisa_henderson wrote: post #21

Whenever I find myself in a conversation with a goldbug, and they complain about something like "the craziness of unbacked monetary systems" I say "I like your shirt. I will give you $500 for that shirt." (This assumes the shirt is clearly worth less than $500.) If they ask why I make such an offer, I ask if they would accept such an offer. If they suggest they would, then I ask why they would accept such an offer. I…

What a strange opinion you hold! | All currencies are backed by our willingness to accept them... This is true! | ... that is the only backing that any currency ever needs This is clearly false- just consider any currency that has experienced hyperinflation. Currencies backed by commodities are not subject to such troubles. Or consider the hidden tax of even nominal inflation caused by monetizing debt (ie, printing "…

>This is clearly false- just consider any currency that has experienced hyperinflation. Currencies backed by commodities are not subject to such troubles.

This is completely false. When silver was discovered in Nevada the price was massively affected. Hell, Spain's economy was wrecked by the importation of gold from the Americas.

If we ever figure out how to bring asteroid resources to earth reliably, or if someone discovers a large deposit of gold you will see just how "stable" the value really is.

Re: Where Is Germany's Gold?

#53

Post by ekianjo »

CDRdude wrote: post #48
ekianjo wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So now, gold prices have been weak for a few years, so they have to come up with a new narrative Not sure about the narrative you describe, but it's a clear fact that it's harder and harder to buy gold anonymously, without declaring to the State where you stash it. Makes it practical the day they come to get it back and give you worthless paper instead.

If I was a government, I wouldn't even want to take it back. Storing gold seems like a hassle compared to storing the equivalent value in regular currency.

Really ? Why do governments keep tons of bar Gold then in the first place ? Have you ever seen the actual inflation of paper money over like, 50 years ? 1 Million USD used to be a lot of money back in the 60s-70s, nowadays it's a commodity and 1 billion is rather the new standard of "large sum".

Re: Where Is Germany's Gold?

#54

Post by maratd »

lisa_henderson wrote: post #21

Whenever I find myself in a conversation with a goldbug, and they complain about something like "the craziness of unbacked monetary systems" I say "I like your shirt. I will give you $500 for that shirt." (This assumes the shirt is clearly worth less than $500.) If they ask why I make such an offer, I ask if they would accept such an offer. If they suggest they would, then I ask why they would accept such an offer. I…

> So why would they take a fiction over a real shirt that that gives them real value?

Ok, relax, I'm a fan of fiat currency as much as anyone, but your argument is a bit off.

Most people who argue for a gold standard aren't debating some innate worth of money. They're generally arguing that a backed currency restricts the government's ability to simply print money and create out of control inflation, which has actually happened many times.

My response to that would be that our democratic system has created a sufficient dis-incentive to do that and the fact that we haven't yet is sufficient proof that it works.

That said, I try not to keep my assets too liquid. Oh well =)

Re: Where Is Germany's Gold?

#55

Post by [deleted] »

ubernostrum wrote: post #42
carsongross wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always good to think about what evidence would convince you that the other side has a point. I lean towards the side that thinks that the central and money center banks (not faceless multinationals) are suppressing the price of gold via fractionally-reserved lending of physical gold. What would convince me that this is not the case would be a comprehensive audit of the Federal Reserve's books and gold holdings.…

It's always good to think about what you'd do if your belief was falsified. Suppose that Ron Paul himself goes through every book, every record and every nook and cranny of Fort Knox personally with an electron microscope and announces he found only evidence that the Federal Reserve is and has been above-board with respect to the United States' gold holdings. What would you do then? Would you actually say "Well, I gu…

[deleted]

Re: Where Is Germany's Gold?

#56

Post by LanceH »

tdees40 wrote: post #35
oafitupa wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we all know that "mainstream economists" are a good source for unbiased opinions.

Sure. Just like "mainstream climate scientists", or "mainstream doctors", amirite?

It's a lot easier to find diametrically opposed economists. Not quite as easy as lawyers, but close.

Re: Where Is Germany's Gold?

#57

Post by geofft »

wolfgke wrote: post #47
geofft wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that would then imply that the five-hundred-dollar bill has value, because it can be exchanged reliably and easily for value. The goldbugs, as far as I know, don't favor gold because it's shiny; they favor it because it's physical and it's historically been popular in so many cultures as a medium of exchange for things of real, inherent value (food, labor, housing, etc.). I think a definition of "value" that root…

> But that would then imply that the five-hundred-dollar bill has value, because it can be exchanged reliably and easily for value. No this is IMHO no valid implication. Say, goldbugs don't believe that money is something other than fiction. But they do believe that at least for the next few days this fiction will not break down in the society: This is enough time to buy gold. But they are not sure how much longer th…

OK, fair. You're effectively defining "value" as "can be exchanged reliably and quickly for other things with/requiring value indefinitely". So the goldbug assumption is that there's a constant and nontrivial risk of people no longer accepting fiat money in the near term, but there is little to no risk of people not accepting gold. I think we can dispute the data informing this worldview, but that's a self-consistent worldview. Thanks.

Re: Where Is Germany's Gold?

#58

Post by Grazester »

ceejayoz wrote: post #2

The recent Bloomberg redesign is truly bizarre. Microsoft WordArt-esque text popping out as you scroll...

It's terrible is what is it. I have started keeping away from the site because of it unfortunately. On a smaller screen laptop I find that I have to scroll more to catch roughly the same number of headline I use to previously

Re: Where Is Germany's Gold?

#59

Post by sopooneo »

lisa_henderson wrote: post #21

Whenever I find myself in a conversation with a goldbug, and they complain about something like "the craziness of unbacked monetary systems" I say "I like your shirt. I will give you $500 for that shirt." (This assumes the shirt is clearly worth less than $500.) If they ask why I make such an offer, I ask if they would accept such an offer. If they suggest they would, then I ask why they would accept such an offer. I…

I'm not a gold bug either, but I think there is a flaw in your example. The owner of the shirt might be worried about the eventual devaluation of the dollar, but trust its short term stability enough to believe the risk would be worth it to trade their shirt for lots of fiat currency, and immediately use the fiat currency to buy 30 shirts.

They took a small short-term risk to increase their tangible goods by 300%.

Re: Where Is Germany's Gold?

#60

Post by sheetjs »

tdees40 wrote: post #35
oafitupa wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we all know that "mainstream economists" are a good source for unbiased opinions.

Sure. Just like "mainstream climate scientists", or "mainstream doctors", amirite?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_th...
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