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I have no idea what I'm doing

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Re: I have no idea what I'm doing

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go further - the beaver doesn't know that its building a dam. It just builds because it feels compelled to. Then when the dam is done (the beaver triggers on the sound of water falling and stops when the sound is gone) the beaver reaps some benefit. Over millions of years, beavers that behaved like this prospered. The beaver doesn't know why or even think about it. No more than you think about your particular cell en…

Go further. All things behave this way. You were compelled to comment given your current circumstance, your particular makeup of cells and electricity sitting in your chair typing, blah blah blah. The beaver knows it's building a dam insasmuch as anyone else knows what they are doing.

That denies conscious thought to me. You can ask me why I do something. Go ask the beaver, see what it says.

Re: I have no idea what I'm doing

#52
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on your point of view. North America used to be a festering swamp of mosquito-ridden beaver ponds. Built over millions of years. That WAS the ecology. The landscape we see today is unnatural and temporary. We reformed this continent to suit ourselves. Most attempts to protect some bit of land and trees in the name of preservation is ... shortsighted at the least.

Eh, I think the more important take from it is that any species is prone to developing an unbalanced advantage that ultimately does them in. We humans just happen to be the ones on top right now doing the unbalanced expansion thing.

I don't think the beaver did itself in? It was us (or the Iroquois Confederacy anyway) that hunted them to near extinction. They got along for 10 million years just fine the way they were.

Re: I have no idea what I'm doing

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go further - the beaver doesn't know that its building a dam. It just builds because it feels compelled to. Then when the dam is done (the beaver triggers on the sound of water falling and stops when the sound is gone) the beaver reaps some benefit. Over millions of years, beavers that behaved like this prospered. The beaver doesn't know why or even think about it. No more than you think about your particular cell en…

Go further. All things behave this way. You were compelled to comment given your current circumstance, your particular makeup of cells and electricity sitting in your chair typing, blah blah blah. The beaver knows it's building a dam insasmuch as anyone else knows what they are doing.

>All things behave this way. You were compelled to comment given your current circumstance, your particular makeup of cells and electricity sitting in your chair typing

This is an interesting comment I think, because if you take it far enough it ends up having implications for free will.

Consider the exercise described in this excerpt from a Sam Harris lecture on free will. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-Xp7mvOcVM (only 14m long and quite fascinating). I'll briefly describe the gist of it for non-video folks.

Exercise: Think of any city in the world. That's it, just think of the name of a city. No limits or restrictions, any city from any country in the world, just pick one.

Having chosen one, consider WHY you chose the city you did. It might seem like your choice was utterly uncompelled by external factors; you specifically made a reasoned choice, or you engaged your whims, or you just went with the first one that popped into your mind, or whatever. In any case, the city you ultimately chose was completely up to your own free will. Right?

Well, we can quickly begin to narrow down the field of possible choices. For one, it's clear that nobody who did the above exercise thought of a city that they'd never heard of. So for each person, the city they chose necessarily came from the set of cities they'd actually heard of. And even then, some filtering or selection "algorithm" is clearly happening behind the scenes, because there exist cities you've heard of, but which didn't happen to occur to you at all just now.

So some cities would seem to have a higher or lower chance of coming to mind than others, based on factors unique to the individual. For example, a city someone just mentioned 5 minutes ago and you're now thinking of, a city that's been featuring in the news lately, or the cities you've personally lived in, or you made a memorable trip to once, or which are culturally fascinating to you, etc etc.

And then consider the actual process that occurred in your head when you started to choose your city. In general, thoughts and ideas largely just kinda "occur" to you, by some process that's not under your conscious control. So in starting to think of a city, the names of some cities just started popping into your head. But what was controlling which cities were popping into your mind, and which weren't? Obviously you can't have consciously controlled this brainstorming process, because this would require you to have thought of the city before you thought of it.

So you wanted to think of a city, and your brain just started conjuring them into your conscious mind somehow. Since you didn't consciously supervise which cities were popping to mind and which weren't, it's as if your brain is doing something like accessing your memories, experiences, prejudices, preferences, etc; and bringing cities into your mind by some automatic process that's not consciously available to you.

But, what determines the list of cities that someone has heard of in their lifetime, and which have therefore made it into the brain to be available for this exercise? Well, many things that were never under your control to begin with. An obvious example: many people end up living much of their lives in the same city they were born. Which means at least one city is in your brain merely because your parents happened to give birth/raise you there, and the thought of moving away never occurred to you (or it did, but you stayed anyway). You don't choose where you were born.

And as you say, everything works like this. So perhaps you thought of Rome because you had Italian food for lunch yesterday, therefore biasing yourself towards thinking of it. But then why did you make that particular lunch choice? Perhaps a coworker made the lunch decision that day, meaning the reason Rome just occurred to you was because of a decision your coworker made. Where's the free will in that? Or perhaps you did decide lunch on your own that day. How did you go about this? Obviously by wanting to think of lunch options, and your brain started popping ideas into your head somehow....

Re: I have no idea what I'm doing

#54
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go further - the beaver doesn't know that its building a dam. It just builds because it feels compelled to. Then when the dam is done (the beaver triggers on the sound of water falling and stops when the sound is gone) the beaver reaps some benefit. Over millions of years, beavers that behaved like this prospered. The beaver doesn't know why or even think about it. No more than you think about your particular cell en…

They'll also abandon perfectly good dams just to move up stream and build another. They're some of the most environmentally destructive critters on earth; like most creatures if allowed to thrive they'll just keep devouring every tree and damming every river until they starve and die off, only beavers can wind up taking whole ecosystems with them.

Those sneaky bastards, I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that they've also been dumping gigatons of CO2 into the atmosphere every year while no one was looking :)

Re: I have no idea what I'm doing

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go further - the beaver doesn't know that its building a dam. It just builds because it feels compelled to. Then when the dam is done (the beaver triggers on the sound of water falling and stops when the sound is gone) the beaver reaps some benefit. Over millions of years, beavers that behaved like this prospered. The beaver doesn't know why or even think about it. No more than you think about your particular cell en…

Go further. All things behave this way. You were compelled to comment given your current circumstance, your particular makeup of cells and electricity sitting in your chair typing, blah blah blah. The beaver knows it's building a dam insasmuch as anyone else knows what they are doing.

No, not really.

GP can reason about what he's doing. He knows that he's commenting on HN. He can come up with a plausible reason why (recreation, perhaps). In a more interesting scenario, say building a dam, GP would cut down logs with the express intention of building a dam to make a pond.

The beaver doesn't know what it's doing, literally. It can't tell you why, it doesn't have a greater plan of building a dam, etc.

You're really talking about motivation, and I'll agree that the motivation is roughly the same for GP and the beaver--some mix of chemicals in their respective brains influencing behavior.

Re: I have no idea what I'm doing

#56
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet another argument for building static websites https://eager.io/blog/build-static-websites/

It's already a static site, but being on the HN front page is really hammering my tiny VPS's network & IO; there are a lot of large images and videos in the post. Guess I should set up a CDN.

Probably even just letting amazon or someone host the images would fix the problem.

Re: I have no idea what I'm doing

#57

Recently I found this note on my desk at home. It says “I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I’M DOING”. I don’t remember writing it, but it was in my house on my desk in my handwriting, so I obviously did. He might want to seek some psychiatric help if this persists. So what did it mean? Was it a cry for help? A product idea? A topic for a blog post? Or could it be an idea for a conference talk? The card was a cry for help. This tal…

Quoting a webpage about beavers is laughable.

The author has projected knowledge onto individual beavers, which is...asinine, to use your word.

The beavers don't look around and think "man, my legs are too short for this location. I need a lodge, dam, and pond!" They just do it. They don't "have a pretty good idea why."

The species as a whole has a motivation (survival), but it's a motivation selected by evolution, not by thought on any level.

Re: I have no idea what I'm doing

#58

Recently I found this note on my desk at home. It says “I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I’M DOING”. I don’t remember writing it, but it was in my house on my desk in my handwriting, so I obviously did. He might want to seek some psychiatric help if this persists. So what did it mean? Was it a cry for help? A product idea? A topic for a blog post? Or could it be an idea for a conference talk? The card was a cry for help. This tal…

Not only have you missed the point of this author's talk, you've also missed the point of Feynman's answer, which served to demonstrate that the question being asked did not have a simple answer that could be succinctly constructed in a way that does the whole story justice. He wasn't saying 'don't try to understand magnets, just use them' he was saying 'I can't answer that question in a satisfactory way without firs…

The basic meaning of 'knowing what you are doing' is "to be aware of through observation, inquiry, or information of an action, the precise nature of which is often unspecified".

This is completely different than what the author (and other commenters) are suggesting, which is that one should have a completely in-depth understanding of all aspects of a given idea as far as human culture is capable of understanding.

If you are walking, you know what you are doing. If you are reading, you know what you are doing. If you're commenting on a web forum, you know what you are doing. You are not confused. You know what typing is. You know what the words you want to say are. You know what you intend to say. This is knowing. This is doing. That's it. That is it.

Most of us, except for maybe the mentally handicapped or the catatonic, know what we are doing. There is no big secret or mystery or hidden understanding. It is not correct to suggest that the majority of people do not comprehend the actions they take. Most people comprehend their actions, even if subconsciously in many cases.

If you watch the video, Feynman gets pissed off. He's not pissed off because he can't answer it, because he could just state "I would have to explain all of physics to you for you to be satisfied." He's pissed because this person doesn't even know what they're asking for.

This author doesn't know what he's talking about when he says he doesn't know what we're doing. But that has nothing to do at all with the rest of us.

The best comparison I can make is to say that most of us don't know why we do anything. There is seemingly no purpose to the universe, or why any of it does what it does. Yet there is completely obvious purpose to everything.

I drink because i'm thirsty. Why am I thirsty? Because my body needs to be hydrated. Why hydrated? Because it's made mostly of water. Why water? Continue that logic train until you run out of ways to explain why the universe exists. Nobody needs to know why the universe exists. But we do know when we're thirsty, and why we drink, which is what we're actually doing, so we do know what we're doing, and why.

We do know why we do things, and what we do. Anyone telling you different is selling something.

Re: I have no idea what I'm doing

#59
I am suspicious of the imposter syndrome self-diagnosis. It permits you to explain away your problems and possible deficiencies without being confronted with the often not so nice reality. As the author rightly says, it is not a solution. To anyone diagnosing himself with the imposter syndrome, I would say: great, so now that you know, you don't have it anymore.

Re: I have no idea what I'm doing

#60
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go further. All things behave this way. You were compelled to comment given your current circumstance, your particular makeup of cells and electricity sitting in your chair typing, blah blah blah. The beaver knows it's building a dam insasmuch as anyone else knows what they are doing.

No, not really. GP can reason about what he's doing. He knows that he's commenting on HN. He can come up with a plausible reason why (recreation, perhaps). In a more interesting scenario, say building a dam, GP would cut down logs with the express intention of building a dam to make a pond. The beaver doesn't know what it's doing, literally. It can't tell you why, it doesn't have a greater plan of building a dam, etc…

>The beaver doesn't know what it's doing, literally. It can't tell you why,

That's because beavers don't speak English.

> it doesn't have a greater plan of building a dam, etc.

Just because you've never seen beavers with little tiny HP calculators poring over pages of drawings and equations does not mean that beavers are mindlessly purposelessly building the dams. You think they just throw stick and through some coincidence, a beaver lodge appears? That's crazy. Beavers build those dams with the intent that it will protect them from predators; they intend to dam up creeks in order to submerge the eventual entrance to their lodge. It is deliberate.

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