Live data from Hacker News

Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

nytimes.com

51–60 of 78 posts

Re: Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're orders of magnitude off on your annual deaths[1]. It seems that most recorded influenza deaths are from pneumonia, and aside from the very rare and deadly influenza strains, far more people have died from malaria than any other disease in the 20th century - perhaps aside from only smallpox. Malaria is believed to kill on the order of a half million or more a year. There are other infectious diseases th…

It wouldn't surprise me if the CDC numbers aren't perfect. However, I was comparing both Flu and Malaria from WHO statistics.

Sure, but you also have to remember malaria is much more localized than influenza. The same region of the world that has to deal with regular outbreaks of influenza also has some of the only areas with malaria. (South America and India also have malaria, but I don't know mortality rates.)

People in Europe don't die of malaria. It just doesn't happen. People in Europe do die of influenza, and that is a global problem, but this is a localized disease that kills a half million people a year. Now, this might be just a case of me coincidentally finding stats to back up my argument, but I searched for "malaria deaths africa" and found this graphic:

http://www.rbm.who.int/gmap/3-2.html

It looks like Sub-Saharan Africa has about 71% of the worldwide cases and 86% of the worldwide deaths. Concentrated in a population of comparable to the US or the EU - not the world. If these statistics are accurate, the death rate is so much higher it's not comparable to influenza. The top 4 countries, Nigeria, DRC, Uganda and Ethiopia have a higher population than the US, but they also apparently account for half of the malaria deaths.

So it's not like the flu, for the countries with prevalent malaria, it's many, many times worse.

Re: Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

#52
"The leading mosquito net manufacturers insist that their products are not dangerous. Still, many nets are labeled: 'Do not wash in a lake or a river.'"

I'm interested to know what language this label was written in. Bemba? Nyanja? Moreover, where did the manufacturers intend for Zambians to wash the nets?

Re: Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

#53
I have travelled throughout Africa and looked at malaria activities and based on my experience using malaria nets for fishing is purely anecdotal. It is obviously not a good thing, but it is not a pervasive thing.

Of interest, people also use malaria nets for gardening. They are used as a means to keeps bugs out of crops.

The more complicated issue is whether people are using the nets properly. It takes discipline to correctly put the net over your body the entire night and sleep under it.

Re: Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

#54

I've heard public health people talk about the problem of giving away nets for free before, and that charging some amount of money seems to improve usage. It may be more than just the decision between starving and malaria, but also some psychology involved with getting free things.

How about… address the food insecurity first? The symptom is that people are misusing nets. The problem is that they have no sustainable food system.

That turns out to be surprisingly hard to do as well. You can't just ship free food in, strongmen will capture it and put it to their own use. Nets, being less fungible in their value, are ultimately less likely to be misused.

Re: Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

#55
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about… address the food insecurity first? The symptom is that people are misusing nets. The problem is that they have no sustainable food system.

and then they have more people and need more food, need more support for their ecosystem because of the exploding population is destroying it, and now you have uneducated people so they need education assistance, schools etc, etc etc. it seems like it would never end

Any truly sustainable solution must address all these issues.

You've hit on the fundamental challenge of complex systems — it's the interactions between components that determines the behavior, not the components themselves. I would strongly recommend the video I linked elsewhere in this thread, if only as a "crash course" in systems thinking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMmChiLZZHg#t=27m53s

Re: Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

#56
post #47

I've heard public health people talk about the problem of giving away nets for free before, and that charging some amount of money seems to improve usage. It may be more than just the decision between starving and malaria, but also some psychology involved with getting free things.

There's another side to that, which is that charging a tiny amount has a disproportionate effect on usage (e.g. $0.00 to $0.01 has a bigger effect than $0.01 to $1.00). This shows that charging a fee has the negative impact of preventing people from buying them, even though the benefit outwieghs the cost.

Yes.

"It is often argued that cost-sharing—charging a subsidized, positive price—for a health product is necessary to avoid wasting resources on those who will not use or do not need the product. We explore this argument through a field experiment in Kenya, in which we randomized the price at which prenatal clinics could sell long-lasting antimalarial insecticide-treated bed nets (ITNs) to pregnant women. We find no evidence that cost-sharing reduces wastage on those who will not use the product: women who received free ITNs are not less likely to use them than those who paid subsidized positive prices. We also find no evidence that costsharing induces selection of women who need the net more: those who pay higher prices appear no sicker than the average prenatal client in the area in terms of measured anemia (an important indicator of malaria). Cost-sharing does, however, considerably dampen demand. We find that uptake drops by sixty percentage points when the price of ITNs increases from zero to $0.60 (i.e., from 100% to 90% subsidy), a price still $0.15 below the price at which ITNs are currently sold to pregnant women in Kenya. We combine our estimates in a cost-effectiveness analysis of the impact of ITN prices on child mortality that incorporates both private and social returns to ITN usage. Overall, our results suggest that free distribution of ITNs could save many more lives than cost-sharing programs have achieved so far, and, given the large positive externality associated with widespread usage of ITNs, would likely do so at a lesser cost per life saved."

Jessica Cohen & Pascaline Dupas, "Free Distribution or Cost-Sharing? Evidence from a Randomized Malaria Prevention Experiment", 2010 http://www.stanford.edu/~pdupas/CohenDupas.pdf

Re: Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

#57
post #2

Solution: besides giving out mosquito nets, also give out fishing nets...

Giving out proper fishing nets would also enable over-fishing, but this could be the lesser of two evils. It reminds me of the calculus around giving addicts clean needles: it feels wrong to enable a destructive and illegal behavior, but the alternative is a net net worse outcome. (Pun intended.)

The proper fishing nets won't have nearly the amount of bycatch as the malaria net used for fishing. The holes in the malaria net are small enough that mosquitos can't make it through. Holes in a fishing net are far larger, so will let very small fish or other creatures through.

Re: Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

#58

I've heard public health people talk about the problem of giving away nets for free before, and that charging some amount of money seems to improve usage. It may be more than just the decision between starving and malaria, but also some psychology involved with getting free things.

Do you have any links? For example, Dupas writes,

"The third finding from recent pricing studies is that people need not have paid for something to value it. Households are as likely to use their bednet when they get it for free as when they have to pay for it (4, 7–9). People are as likely to use their water filter if they paid a lower price for it (2). This is surprising for two reasons. First, standard economic theory suggests that charging nontrivial user fees should help target products to those who need them the most—and thus those most likely to put them to appropriate use. But this reasoning breaks down when people face credit constraints and their ability to pay is lower than their willingness to pay. When those who could use a product the most are too poor to pay cash for it, higher prices screen out the poor, not just those with lower health returns from using the product (9). Second, it is often thought that the act of paying itself makes people value a product or service more; the feeling of “guilt” from having spent money on something that is left unused would make people more diligent users. However, experimental studies designed to test the importance of this psychological phenomenon suggest that this consideration is not important when it comes to essential health (2, 7, 10). The cost of poor health seems a good enough incentive to put products to good use."

Pascaline Dupas, "Getting essential health products to their end users: Subsidize, but how much?" Science 345:1279-1281, 2014. http://www.sciencemag.org/content/345/6202/1279.full.pdf?key...

Re: Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about… address the food insecurity first? The symptom is that people are misusing nets. The problem is that they have no sustainable food system.

That turns out to be surprisingly hard to do as well. You can't just ship free food in, strongmen will capture it and put it to their own use. Nets, being less fungible in their value, are ultimately less likely to be misused.

>You can't just ship free food in

Agreed, that doesn't qualify as a sustainable food system.

Re: Meant to Keep Mosquitos Out, Nets Are Used to Haul Fish In

#60
post #35
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who is an American-born-Nigerian and my wife, born and raised in Nigeria, I can confirm this. My wife got malaria all the time in Nigeria, it was like a really bad cold or a flu in America. You get over it and move on. Only if your immune system is already compromised in some other way like old age or whatever malaria isn't really that big a deal among those who were strong and healthy before getting it. I…

Yeah, my brother in law got Malaria in another tropical country, like a bad flu, recovered pretty quick. Certainly not as scary as people make it out to be (unless you're already in bad shape). One also has to remember the epidemic flu viruses that killed millions in the west in past centuries, yet now we barely care enough to get flu shots.

but, but, we are solving world problems!
Post reply on HN