Earlier quoted context omitted.
Oh, it's worse than that. The best evolutionary strategy for animals seems to be evolving into humans' pets, human food, or scavengers of human waste... Other can survive -- with human help -- by serving as entertainment.
Becoming human food is an evolutionary strategy for animals?
Dogs, but Not Wolves, Use Humans as Tools
51–60 of 75 posts
Re: Dogs, but Not Wolves, Use Humans as Tools
#52Re: Dogs, but Not Wolves, Use Humans as Tools
#53these researchers had their dogs and wolves treated identically, and concluded that "even after being raised by humans, wolves simply do not see humans as potential social partners."
but my interpretation is that they learned that wolves, after being raised by humans as if they were dogs, do not see humans as potential social partners. and this distinction matters, because my family's pet dog/wolf saw us all as his subordinates, until we learned the different way to act around a wolf.
if you show a wolf tons and tons of affection, like it was a dog, it thinks you're trying to kiss its ass and take a subordinate position to it.
all these researchers really learned here, in my opinion, was that if you communicate to a wolf that you are not to be taken seriously as a partner, it will not take you seriously as a partner.
I think the possibility absolutely remains open that researchers who had bothered to do their homework first might be able to produce results where the wolves looked to the humans for help just as often as the dogs did.
if you baby a wolf in the way that we baby dogs in 2015, you are probably not creating an entirely realistic simulation of the context within which wolves and humans first began collaborating.
Re: Dogs, but Not Wolves, Use Humans as Tools
#54This is the almost-universal behavior of low-status individuals to high-status ones (in a boardroom everyone looks at the boss to know how to react to a joke).
So it could mean, not that dogs "use humans" but rather that they recognize humans (and specifically their trainer) as the leader of their pack, which wolves do not.
It would be interesting to do this experiment again with dogs and a human that they absolutely don't recognize as a leader (a toddler that they have never seen before, for example).
My guess is, if there are two humans in the room, a "recognized leader" and a "recognized non-leader", and if the non-leader knows how to solve the riddle, and the leader does not, then the riddle will never be solved because the dog will never seek the help of the non-leader.
Re: Dogs, but Not Wolves, Use Humans as Tools
#55As described, the experience doesn't really show that dogs use humans as tools, but rather that they look to their face for hints as to how to behave. This is the almost-universal behavior of low-status individuals to high-status ones (in a boardroom everyone looks at the boss to know how to react to a joke). So it could mean, not that dogs "use humans" but rather that they recognize humans (and specifically their tr…
So it could mean, not that dogs "use humans" but
rather that they recognize humans (and specifically
their trainer) as the leader of their pack, which
wolves do not.
I think this is absolutely correct.Re: Dogs, but Not Wolves, Use Humans as Tools
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Oftentimes, I notice how pets (esp. cats[0]) are looked after 24/7 by their owners, groomed, given food, shelter, etc. and pretty much do nothing but continuously solicit pleasure. Cats continually police the household to detect and eliminate vermin and other such pests, as well as acting as a deterrent to keep the pests and some other animals away. This function used to be more relevant in the past than it is toda…
Our cat has developed extreme levels (for a cat) of communication skills. From the top of my head there's about 20 meow/maw/mraw/meeaw/mwaw/mwo we can distinguish (possibly 50 if I include variations in tones and length of each phoneme). Combined with subtle (compared to dogs) body language, including various tail and body positions and ears + eyes + eyelids + facial hair movements, the overall palette of "words" and…
For instance, there is no flap to our front door so if she needs to go outside during the day, she comes to us and meows.
But if it happens during the night she has noticed (I think) that I hate being woken up by hard "meoooo" in the middle of the night; and so she doesn't emit a sound -- she jumps on the bed and does a very soft "dance" on my legs until I (gently) wake up; then she meows and goes to the door, waiting for me to open it.
Re: Dogs, but Not Wolves, Use Humans as Tools
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
Natural selection would favor those organisms who live long enough to reproduce. Living into old age isn't a factor. There wouldn't be nearly as many cows, chickens or pigs on this planet if they weren't delicious. Especially pigs, humans would kill them on sight due to the tendencies of feral ones to destroy crops.
In fact wild boar is a favorite hunter's prey. Hey! Maybe wild boar are so elusive, aggressive and ugly BECAUSE hunters like that kind! Maybe they are also using humans as tools...
http://myfwc.com/conservation/you-conserve/assistnuisance-wi...
edit: grammar.
Re: Dogs, but Not Wolves, Use Humans as Tools
#58> @K9TrainerTina: they were, actually. however, the 5 month old wolf pups mostly just went to sleep after initially failing to get the food, so they were excluded from the analysis.
Re: Dogs, but Not Wolves, Use Humans as Tools
#59when I was a kid, we had a pet dog who turned out to be half-wolf. when we learned he was half-wolf, we treated him differently, and a ton of serious behavioral problems vanished instantly. these researchers had their dogs and wolves treated identically, and concluded that "even after being raised by humans, wolves simply do not see humans as potential social partners." but my interpretation is that they learned that…
This is pretty common with "bad dogs." It turns out we just can't remove all the wolf-aspects from dogs 100% of the time. It took me a while to learn that my dog is always jockeying for position and affection, to her, is submission. She's not half-wolf, but seem seems very wolf-like. (recessive genetic trait?) I have to follow a fairly strict dominance regimen to keep her from asserting dominance and barking or even biting me. When I slack off, she becomes more aggressive. Frankly, its a hassle.
The more I think about domesticated pets, the less I like the idea. So many dogs are put down for behavioral issues and most pets suffer from neglect and even mental illness. I believe there was a study that most dogs are mentally ill, probably from being housebound for so long. There's something really unnatural about the whole thing. I don't think we're going to replace this dog after she dies. As much as I dislike PETA's antics, I think their official (but almost never followed by its members) policies of ending pet ownership makes a lot of sense.
Re: Dogs, but Not Wolves, Use Humans as Tools
#60when I was a kid, we had a pet dog who turned out to be half-wolf. when we learned he was half-wolf, we treated him differently, and a ton of serious behavioral problems vanished instantly. these researchers had their dogs and wolves treated identically, and concluded that "even after being raised by humans, wolves simply do not see humans as potential social partners." but my interpretation is that they learned that…