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Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans

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Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans

#51

Post by learc83 »

johansch wrote: post #25

(Swedish. Politically speaking right-wing in that spectrum. In the US political spectrum; probably centrist.) If I were a NYC citizen, I'd approve of a police authority that was innovative enough to bring these things onto the streets. NYC is a terrorism magnet, as has been shown.

That's not the problem; their are ways to use this that don't violate the constitution. The problem is refusal to release information on what safety standards, if any, they are following.

Customs uses these at the border, but they make people get out of their cars. There are reports of NYPD ordering people to drive through these scanners.

Maybe this is safe, maybe it's not, but I don't trust a city police department to determine that.

Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans

#52

Post by upofadown »

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #12

They have a very interesting way of reporting radiation exposure (ditto with airport scanners). Instead of reporting the total body accumulated dose, they report the dose a single scanning beam sweep induces over a small area. These machines use a tight beam (or several) which sweep. Each individual beam when measured in isolation likely deliver 0.1 microSievert of radiation. However the total body dose (accumulated…

You can look at this the other way as well. The scanning beam only causes a low exposure at a point because it is scanning very quickly. The peak radiation is quite high. We know the dangers of cumulative dose because that is most useful in the case of low level exposure over a long time. Could it be possible that the risks are different for brief intense exposure?

Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans

#53

Post by tdicola »

medecau wrote: post #19

Would a Geiger tube detect these X-Rays? https://www.sparkfun.com/products/8875 I'm thinking Arduino boards and webcams.

You can pick a great kit from MightyOhm that has the tube and supporting electronics to power it. It outputs data on a serial connection so it's easy to read from an Arduino. Check it out here: https://www.adafruit.com/products/483

It's best for detecting gamma rays and really can't detect alpha or beta rays, so for example a smoke detector's americurium source won't really set it off but old uranium glaze cookware will drive it crazy. Not sure about x-rays but I bet it would catch them since they're pretty high energy and penetrating.

Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans

#54

Post by TillE »

johansch wrote: post #25

(Swedish. Politically speaking right-wing in that spectrum. In the US political spectrum; probably centrist.) If I were a NYC citizen, I'd approve of a police authority that was innovative enough to bring these things onto the streets. NYC is a terrorism magnet, as has been shown.

Putting aside September 11th (which would not have been prevented by x-raying vans), there have been zero actual bombings in New York City since 1993, just one pathetic attempt. And very few other incidents.

It's not a city that lives under constant fear of terrorist attack, and as such I wouldn't expect to see invasive measures like this except in response to a very specific threat.

Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans

#55

Post by Stratoscope »

saryant wrote: post #47
Stratoscope wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> go back to the pre 9-11 airport security system A funny thing happened on my way to CES [1] this week. I showed my mobile boarding pass on my phone to the TSA greeter who said, "OK, sir, you can go down this other line on the right." That line was very short, and I wasn't sure if this was a good thing or a bad thing. I got to the head of that line right away and the next TSA agent said, "Welcome. You don't have to…

Your assistant didn't sign you up for Pre, given that membership requires an in-person fingerprint scan. You got Pre because Southwest forwarded your information to the TSA which gave you Pre for that trip. I have Pre through the Global Entry program. Others get it day-of because they were "randomly" sent to that line at the airport. Some airports have touchscreens which decide which line to send passengers to (passe…

Interesting! Thank you for that info, I was very curious to know how that happened and didn't get a chance to ask our assistant about it yet, just assumed that she'd worked some of her usual magic! :-)

Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans

#56

Post by throwaway7625 »

medecau wrote: post #19

Would a Geiger tube detect these X-Rays? https://www.sparkfun.com/products/8875 I'm thinking Arduino boards and webcams.

It seems like this would do the trick:

http://www.polimaster.com/products/electronic_dosimeters/pm1...

At least if your phone could alert you when you're being irradiated you could take note.

Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans

#57

Post by throwaway7625 »

The use of these vans seems like an opportunity for some investigative journalism.

Setup dosimeters to detect the x-rays as the vans pass by, record a video of it happening, then tell the pedestrians nearby that their government just irradiated them without their knowledge or consent and see what they say in response.

Or setup stands that detect the x-rays and automatically announce over a loudspeaker that people standing nearby are being irradiated an observe the reaction.

If the police are not confident that the responses will be welcoming, they should not be doing this.

Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans

#58

Post by seanp2k2 »

tesq wrote: post #36

What implications does this program have for the 4th amendment right to not have a search conducted without a warrant? If they're used on the public at large, generating mass probable cause or a blanket expectation that anyone could be a dangerous terrorist as justification is a scary precedent. It's reminiscent of the FLIR vans used to catch marijuana growers that the Supreme Court determined to be mobile Constituti…

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

What happened? War on drugs, 9/11, profit motive, and political motives.

Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans

#59

Post by blueprint »

johansch wrote: post #25

(Swedish. Politically speaking right-wing in that spectrum. In the US political spectrum; probably centrist.) If I were a NYC citizen, I'd approve of a police authority that was innovative enough to bring these things onto the streets. NYC is a terrorism magnet, as has been shown.

You know what else is a terrorism magnet? US foreign policy. Employment of such technology might seem innovative from the surface, but you appear to completely ignore the real causes of why they must even consider bringing such technology into use. Their participation in what they themselves do not understand will only contribute to the causes of terrorism which originate from international actions by the USA. A human society functions much like a human being. They act and react according to what is inside of them.

By the way, I've been an NYC resident for 17 years and was born in the USA.

Re: Judge Orders NYPD to Release Records on X-ray Vans

#60

Post by ceejayoz »

johansch wrote: post #25

(Swedish. Politically speaking right-wing in that spectrum. In the US political spectrum; probably centrist.) If I were a NYC citizen, I'd approve of a police authority that was innovative enough to bring these things onto the streets. NYC is a terrorism magnet, as has been shown.

> NYC is a terrorism magnet, as has been shown.

You must be kidding. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Terrorist_incidents_in...

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