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Hardware startups should consider local manufacturing

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Re: Hardware startups should consider local manufacturing

#51
post #4

I have backed a half dozen Kickstarters and Indigogos that were hardware based (consumer electronics) and chose to manufacture in China. Seeing the time and money they spend in order to fly someone over to China to troubleshoot and issue with manufacturing or testing has left me wondering - why do small startups choose to manufacture in China to begin with? > Is it because they assume that despite the initial cost ov…

My guess would be that it starts with the assumption that "China is cheaper", and that makes for an easy story to tell to investors "we're making XYZ in China!". The second you say "we're making it in Texas", it opens you up to questions of "isn't that expensive?" On the face of it, I'm sure the up-front quote from a Chinese manufacturer is cheaper than something in the USA. Where costs skyrocket is when something go…

it opens you up to questions of "isn't that expensive?"

I suspect that if one has a secondary goal of increasing local employment and benefitting the local economy, then the PR side could be managed in a way that allays that. It would have to walk a thin line bordering the exploitation of the underclass in blighted urban areas.

Even if all of that works out, there are other things to consider: costs (and time) of shipping. Want it in a week? Well, get ready to pay. Even if you ship it air freight consolidated, it's still not cheap. If you want it on a boat, there's a good chunk of time to think about.

Maybe a "hybrid" approach would have tremendous benefits? How about an organization of local makers that also had language and cultural skills to enable it to work closely with and maintain solid relationships with reliable manufacturers in China? (Or maybe Mexico?) Local workers would handle prototyping and rush orders, but work with foreign manufacturers to reduce the cost as volumes increased. Such an organization could also be used to economically empower people in the local community. (Such efforts work most reliably when small numbers of new members can be acculturated by the majority of established members.)

On top of THAT, there are all sorts of fun import tariffs and such to deal with (at least on the US side). Get ready to front money for an import bond, for starters! And there may already be some hidden costs of importing into the US

My experience of several years ago, bringing a chinese-made laser cutter to my old hackerspace, is that all of the small-time people flaunt most of the customs stuff. In fact, if you are concerned with the possible jail time for not obeying this or that regulation, your friends in China may well tell you, "Yes, of course," on the phone then just blow you off, knowing you won't get caught and not wanting to pay the fees and bother with paperwork. (Also saving you some money in the process.)

Re: Hardware startups should consider local manufacturing

#52

I've been thinking about this just the other day. The context then was locally grown weed in the US and the implications of that for farmers in South America. Wouldn't we be better off distributing the "workload" evenly across the planet?

International drug trafficking laws are almost definitely a bigger factor in the consideration of where to grow legalized medicinal/recreational cannabis than cost, especially considering it grows so readily in so many different climates.

Re: Hardware startups should consider local manufacturing

#53

I've been thinking about this just the other day. The context then was locally grown weed in the US and the implications of that for farmers in South America. Wouldn't we be better off distributing the "workload" evenly across the planet?

Probably not: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage#Ricardo.2...

To take your pot example, there are places where it grows well, and places where it's not so easy to grow. It's better for everyone if it's grown in the easy places, and traded for goods that are more easily produced in the 'not so easy' places.

That's the theory, at least. Naturally, that specific example also has a lot of legal issues surrounding it!

Re: Hardware startups should consider local manufacturing

#54
I'll add one word of caution, I've looked into getting a product made that had a textile component and a separate product that had a leather component.

Precision, automated stitching is either totally absent or completely unaffordable in the US. There are great shops India and China that can do laser cutting and CNC stitching super cheaply and if you want to make an inexpensive product to tight tolerances this is exactly what you want.

Unfortunately much of the consumer level textile industry has completely left the US. Same with leather. You can find boutique manufacturers, luxury manufacturers, and aerospace type companies, but the sweet spot of high quality and a good price just doesn't exist here. (I actually hope I'm wrong about that but I did a lot of searching before abandoning a couple projects.)

Re: Hardware startups should consider local manufacturing

#55
post #4

I have backed a half dozen Kickstarters and Indigogos that were hardware based (consumer electronics) and chose to manufacture in China. Seeing the time and money they spend in order to fly someone over to China to troubleshoot and issue with manufacturing or testing has left me wondering - why do small startups choose to manufacture in China to begin with? > Is it because they assume that despite the initial cost ov…

hey, author here. - the assumption that china is cheaper - the assumption that cost savings trumphs all - not being exposed to what is possible locally - a hype around making something abroad

Re: Hardware startups should consider local manufacturing

#56
post #4

I have backed a half dozen Kickstarters and Indigogos that were hardware based (consumer electronics) and chose to manufacture in China. Seeing the time and money they spend in order to fly someone over to China to troubleshoot and issue with manufacturing or testing has left me wondering - why do small startups choose to manufacture in China to begin with? > Is it because they assume that despite the initial cost ov…

My guess would be that it starts with the assumption that "China is cheaper", and that makes for an easy story to tell to investors "we're making XYZ in China!". The second you say "we're making it in Texas", it opens you up to questions of "isn't that expensive?" On the face of it, I'm sure the up-front quote from a Chinese manufacturer is cheaper than something in the USA. Where costs skyrocket is when something go…

fully agree on every point

Re: Hardware startups should consider local manufacturing

#57
> If you’re based in Germany, there is a 7 hour time difference to east Asia, if you’re based in California, it is 16 hours.

No, in California, it's 8 hours (in the other direction). It doesn't make sense to talk about more than 12 hours of time offset except if you really care about aligning the calendar day instead of just the hour of the day.

Re: Hardware startups should consider local manufacturing

#58
post #50

I agree that manufacturing in-house is great for hardware startups. I've seen it work for several. The insight they gain into the details of design, and the speed they can iterate at, more than make up for higher local labor costs.

hey, author here. we're thinking about sharing stories about hardware startups that decided for the local manufacturing route including price differences, manufacturing tips, gm contacts, etc. If somebody is interested or wants to get involved, please send me an email: tobias@senic.com

Re: Hardware startups should consider local manufacturing

#59

I'll add one word of caution, I've looked into getting a product made that had a textile component and a separate product that had a leather component. Precision, automated stitching is either totally absent or completely unaffordable in the US. There are great shops India and China that can do laser cutting and CNC stitching super cheaply and if you want to make an inexpensive product to tight tolerances this is exa…

That sounds like a business opportunity.

Re: Hardware startups should consider local manufacturing

#60
As usual, the answers are not simple. At our last hardware startup we ended up manufacturing the mechanical parts (injection moulded case, springs, etc.) in China via our industrial design company but did PCBs, assembly and packaging locally in Poland. We simply didn't have enough prior experience to design a foolproof assembly process (which involved flashing, testing on GSM/GPS repeaters, etc.). We are considering moving the to production to China, but only once we solve any critical hardware bugs, smooth out the wrinkles in the flashing/testing process and reach sufficient quantities. With small orders of 100s of units and unexpected disasters like resistors tombstoning due to small errors in solder paste stencils, a five minute call to the manufacturing plant beats cross-timezone, cross-language and cross-culture debugging every single time.
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