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What Bums Me Out About the Tech Industry

blog.shutdown.com

51–60 of 139 posts

Re: What Bums Me Out About the Tech Industry

#51
post #38

Seems like some people are missing the point. He loved it when people enjoyed tech for the pure "creation" and "exploration" aspect. Not the money money money that it has often become. I also disagree with him on this point. I see a huge amount of new ideas and work from people who just like to create, but it tends to be at a more grass roots level like the Arduino community, or the hackerspace groups. So I say to hi…

i went on a rant about this stuff in a recent comment asking about Tech Bootcamps that i deleted half of cuz i knew it would just piss ppl off & was a waste of breath (all other comments were pretty much from ppl who lOoooOooOove 'em, half commenters had vested interest). but yeah tech bootcamps, consultant scammers, open source hipsters.... i see this stuff is rampant & it seems to be a downer in cyberspace. I code…

if you downvoted this can you please explain why? I am actually desperate for reasons not to be so cynical about my job so i can at least scrape something out of my days until i find a better place...

I wish I had a sunnier view of things but I am someone who wants to work hard but feels like an ant on an ant farm. ppl have advised me to go into startup scene but all the startups i've interviewed at in NY are mock corporations -- ad delivery, ad multimedia, analytics, facebook ripoff.... bleh. where to go?

Re: What Bums Me Out About the Tech Industry

#53
post #20

I just want to point out that the "entrepreneur" with 20 years career did not just start recently: if it's bad, then it has been a while. >We did it because there was an inexhaustible quantity of information to be learned about a subject that was dear to us. We used archie and gopher to transfer open source software around and share knowledge. We snuck into computer labs at neighboring universities to get our hands o…

http://paulgraham.com/mean.html, which I missed the first time around. Which I find very interesting when juxtaposed against the Steve Jobs hero worship that also goes on around here.

Re: What Bums Me Out About the Tech Industry

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy shit, settle down for a second. The guy equates working for a paycheck with entitlement... how out of touch can you be? I didn't read any of what you said in the author's blog. He even mentions, at the end, about "waxing nostalgic". So his argument going to be a bit one-sided but then, it is his argument after all. I agree with the overall sentiment of the author's rant. I miss some of the geeking out that was d…

Young people, new programmers, and other groups who have no power are not responsible for the nature of a field. Old people control the nature of every field. Old greybeards are the ones who made computer science this way--it's just those greybeards that this man disaproves of. This man isn't a billionaire VC, a tenured Comp Sci professor, an author of programming books, or a CEO hiring and training the kinds of empl…

> This guy isn't in charge, so he blames young people and assumes they are in charge.

What makes you think he's not "in charge"?

> Young people are just followers. They follow the money, they do what they're told, they adopt fashions in order to SURVIVE, not out of some kind of "strange entitlement."

If you are young and believe this, I am sad for you.

"Youth" (those in their 20's, for example) have some of the best kind of power - the unfettered kind. As a generalization/simplification, those in their 20's have fewer dedicated costs in their lives (rent and food at the least; car payment perhaps). That gives them the freedom to CHOOSE. That's the power of youth - choice. In youth, a person can choose to lift up and move. Can choose to quit - or stay at - a job because of principals. Can choose to change careers, become an expert in one field or a generalist in many. I won't go so far as to say all things are possible, but there are certainly many paths that could be traveled with relative (key part there - relative) ease. As we get older, the dedicated costs (generally - there are certainly exceptions) go up. House payments. Kids. Medical expenses (personal and family). Income may (or may not) go up, but it's almost certain that key life options will decline. There are still choices to make and control of life to be had for sure, but they are not so numerous; the road does not web outward as it did in youth so much as it forks in minor directional changes.

So - if anyone out there is still in their youth (which is more a state of mind than physical being, mind), I suggest you try different things. Experiment with life. Follow your true passions and see where they lead. The author of this blog (and myself; and others) did that and it turned out that our passions would become an industry that would change the world. I only hope your passions (if you have the heart to chase them) will yield the same so that we can share in that. We can use this thing that we were around to see birthed to do so. Or something better if you prefer; but you'll need to make that happen because we're tired and just want to enjoy our time with our communal child as long as we can, please.

Re: What Bums Me Out About the Tech Industry

#55

Yawn. A whiny, arrogant, grass-is-always-greener post with a bunch of hypotheticals about the filthy unwashed masses encroaching on "our" turf and how much greater it was "back in the day." Bonus points for laying out the criteria for a "true" hacker is (spoiler alert: it's anyone who spent their time almost identically as the author).

Ouch! That was too well said.

Re: What Bums Me Out About the Tech Industry

#56
post #20

I just want to point out that the "entrepreneur" with 20 years career did not just start recently: if it's bad, then it has been a while. >We did it because there was an inexhaustible quantity of information to be learned about a subject that was dear to us. We used archie and gopher to transfer open source software around and share knowledge. We snuck into computer labs at neighboring universities to get our hands o…

http://paulgraham.com/mean.html , which I missed the first time around. Which I find very interesting when juxtaposed against the Steve Jobs hero worship that also goes on around here.

I've never liked the characteristics of Steve Jobs (and 90s Bill Gates) as mean. They're what I'd called "evil" - in the sense that they will do anything to get the works done, ethics or social norms be damned. But that's much different than being "mean". You can certainly be "evil" (with the quoted definition of evil above), but not mean.

Not that it's fine being "evil", but that's another discussion.

Re: What Bums Me Out About the Tech Industry

#57

tl;dr: People are suddenly interested in something I'm passionate about, they're all poseur johnny-come-latelys, I'm the authentic hacker This is maybe the tenth HN post I've read that's some iteration of this gut feeling by people who entered tech after a life-long obsession with computers. It's really cool that you're passionate about CS -- there are also a lot of people who are rational actors making rational deci…

'Rational Self Interest' is a myth. For self interest to be truly rational you'd have to be able to model long term consequences of short term decisions extremely well.

This would be a useful way to make sure you wouldn't do something incredibly stupid and ultimately self-defeating just so you could to make a quick buck in the next quarter, if the ultimately consequence was that the same 'rational decision' was going to kill you - financially or literally - a year or ten later. (Or at least you'd be fully aware that it was likely to kill you, and were just fine with that.)

If you try to model long term wide area consequences you eventually have to accept that rational actors work within some very irrational belief systems, and long term modelling is very much a minority interest.

This is partly because you get as much useful information about the future from 'market signals' as you get from any stampeding herd, flock or school of animals - which is not much.

This has been covered over and over in the literature (e.g. Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds, etc).

>Almost every industry is full of people who toil at jobs they're not passionate about, and it doesn't make their employers bad companies.

Maybe not. But it certainly makes them extremely dull and horribly inefficient, economically and politically.

>There's a legitimate complaint here about poor craftsmanship,

I don't think it's a complaint about poor craftsmanship. I think it's a complaint about questionable cultural ethics.

Re: What Bums Me Out About the Tech Industry

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your writing reads like you have a chip on your shoulder. It beats around the bush, but you should just come out an say that you don't like people over a certain age. But be careful, because there's a good chance you will soon be that age (or older) and start griping at younger people who don't seem to hold your viewpoint. Your account is 20 minutes old with only 2 comments, both of which are inflammatory. Please tak…

Good lord! Don't confuse envy with hatred. I don't hate old people, I envy them! I envy Wedge Martin who got into tech in a time when it was professionally acceptable and viable to drill down into details. I envy a time when you could have a career based on fundamentals rather than buzzwords and rapidly learning frameworks. I have tremendous respect for greybeard, which is precisely why I recognize that greybears are…

There's a fable, "The Scorpion and the Frog" [1] wherein the moral is (copied from Wikipedia):

The fable is used to illustrate the position that no change can be made in the behavior of the fundamentally vicious.

My point about changing the rules of the game is that if the oppressors are not changing because they have all the power, then don't try to change the oppressors. Instead, find a way to remove yourself from the rules that they created. After all, rules are just constructs and can be changed by anyone.

If enough people stopped allowing employers to push 60-hour work weeks on programmers [2], then we might start to see some change. The way that I stopped employers from abusing my time was to first admit that it was myself that was allowing it to be abused, and then to say no and instead show them what I could accomplish in 8 hours (or 40 hours per week). If an employer violated my rules, I left. That's my rule. It may mean that I miss out on some opportunities, but there are so many more opportunities for people out there that stick to their principles (within reason) and work with other decent people.

Lastly, I'll be more clear. The overall point I'm making to you in this comment and others is that you need to stop thinking in absolutes. There is too much pent up stress that doesn't need to be there, and your life will be a lot better if you stop feeling like things are things are set in stone (because they're not). This is very cliché to write but this is one of the few things that only age can teach you.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog

[2] by quitting, talking to labour relations boards or the government, etc. Or, just saying no. It's a very very powerful word.

Re: What Bums Me Out About the Tech Industry

#59
post #43

tl;dr: People are suddenly interested in something I'm passionate about, they're all poseur johnny-come-latelys, I'm the authentic hacker This is maybe the tenth HN post I've read that's some iteration of this gut feeling by people who entered tech after a life-long obsession with computers. It's really cool that you're passionate about CS -- there are also a lot of people who are rational actors making rational deci…

This is also another version of "last man over the bridge" which oddly enough I can't seem to find a link to define it. I thought it was a fairly well know concept. In other words it's similar in a way to old timers on an island and how they react when a flux of newcomers arrive with their new ideas and different motivations. And they aren't "authentic". Same as in a way hazing newbies in the marines, fire department…

It's more than that, it's more like having pride in being an early adopter only to find yourself standing in the middle of a crowd.

Those who seek the frontier must keep moving or they'll end up surrounded by a community they might not be able to tolerate. To stand your ground, shotgun in hand, yelling at kids to get off your lawn is not helping anyone.

Let's face it: Kids are holding hardware in their hands that researchers in the 1980s would kill for, an iPhone 6 has a CPU so powerful it would easily crush the most powerful computers in the world in 1993 (http://www.top500.org/list/1993/06/) but they use it to take selfies.

Re: What Bums Me Out About the Tech Industry

#60

So to summarize... a man born into privilege is annoyed by poor people. The guy equates working for a paycheck with entitlement... how out of touch can you be? Working for a paycheck is something you do out of economic neccessity--for survival, NOT entitlement. Getting paid to work on your hobbies in the tech industry in 1995 is basically winning the lottery. Most people would kill to have this chance. This guy is co…

Thank you. I rolled my eyes so hard when he started droning on about brogrammers not bothering to learn below their layers of abstraction.

We live in a world where job postings are looking for RoR developers, job interviews test you on FizzBuzz, UML, and vague logic problems, and managers encourage developers to move fast and churn out releases. When exactly was anybody supposed to learn compilers, assembly, or low-level internet routing infrastructure? It was in a CS classroom years ago, and without any practical reason to refresh that knowledge ever since.

Furthermore, the "applications" produced by this "golden age" of the internet were complete shit by today's standards. If they were so wonderful, why do we like to laugh at their miserable UX, ugly design, and lack of functionality?

As if in 1995 they needed to think about javascript frameworks, CSS frameworks, responsive design, mobile anything, (quality) animations, asset servers, enormous databases, application and user analytics, clustered applications with message-passing, advanced caching strategies, an enormous variety of user input, or any of the other multitudinous things I forgot to mention.

In 1995 they thought of everything up to the point where a static HTML document gets sent to the user, and that's where they stopped thinking. In 2015 we have a lot more to think about after that initial transfer. In 2015 we have to, y'know, make applications.

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