How Britain Exported Next-Generation Surveillance • Hacker News Board

Re: How Britain Exported Next-Generation Surveillance

#51

Post by hrjet » Sun, Jan 04, 2015, 9:12 PM UTC

dfc wrote: post #31

JetSpiegel wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use Policeman https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/policeman/ Or on Github for a more bleeding-edge version https://github.com/futpib/policeman/releases

I have always loved requestpolicy but for some reason something about RPContinued makes me nervous. Policeman would be a great alternative if Sync worked[^1]. I cant use policeman if it means I have to jump through the same hoops on every firefox installation in order to get things set up. [^1]: https://github.com/futpib/policeman/issues/28 Plus issues 92 and 95.

Thanks to @JetSpiegel I just became aware of Policeman. And I am not sure why you are nervous about RPContinued.

So, I went ahead and created a wiki for this: https://github.com/UprootLabs/gngr/wiki/List-of-request-bloc...

If there are any known issues with RPContinued or there are other extensions that are not listed, please feel free to add them. Thanks.

Re: How Britain Exported Next-Generation Surveillance

#52

Post by eterm » Sun, Jan 04, 2015, 9:13 PM UTC

EliRivers wrote: post #16

eterm wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public transport is tracked too. TFL have removed the ability to use cash on busses now, you must use oyster cards.[1] [1] https://www.tfl.gov.uk/modes/buses/cash-free-buses

That enables them to track the card, but not the person. The card does not have to be tied to a specific person. I suppose you could correlate known journeys someone made and work out which card is their's, or watch someone using the card on CCTV and use the timestamp to identify their card, or once you'd got someone in custody take their card and get their travel history, but if someone simply changes card (and pays…

Every time you change card you get charged an extra £5, so even cash payers won't be changing cards to clean their history very often.

And now they actually accept debit cards directly at the gates without even the oyster cards.

If someone tries, of course they can pay cash and they can change up cards. But the point isn't that it's impossible to avoid surveillance, but that we are in a surveillance state which you have to try hard enough to avoid that avoidance is a red flag in itself.

Re: How Britain Exported Next-Generation Surveillance

#53

Post by MichaelCrawford » Sun, Jan 04, 2015, 9:19 PM UTC

roel_v wrote: post #36

MichaelCrawford wrote: post #2

Well that clinches my decision. I've been getting around on public transit for quite a long time, but have been thinking of getting a car. Now I've decided not to. I'm a generally law-abiding citizen, but I simply do not wish to be tracked. How would you feel were someone to follow you around everywhere you went? Even if they kept their distance, never spoke to you our overtly harmed you in any way, it would be very…

In a few years there will be enough processing power to do facial recognition that will be accurate let's say 90% or so of the time. More than enough to track you everywhere where there is public transport.

Beards cause trouble for facial regulation. While I expect bears are the focus of much research, one way to screw with the system is to grow a beard for your ID photo, then shave it off - or vice-versa.

However, women don't generally have beards, so I expect that facial recognition is more effective at identifying them than us men.

Re: How Britain Exported Next-Generation Surveillance

#54

Post by dllthomas » Sun, Jan 04, 2015, 9:20 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #43

dllthomas wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that a higher chance of being caught has no deterrent effect. My understanding is that this is very much not the case. On the flip side, you're also ignoring the opportunity for abuse of surveillance, which it may make sense to consider additional crime.

I don't subscribe to the view of humanity that we'd all be raging maniacs if we knew that we wouldn't get caught. Most people are decent and most criminals are not smart enough to evaluate their chances of getting caught rationally, if they did then the prisons wouldn't be as full as they are. The chances of getting caught if you're committing a crime are plenty high as it is, and yet we still have repeat offenders.…

You make two errors of the same form. It need neither be the case that a zero chance of being caught means a 100% (or even "high") chance of committing crime, nor that a 100% chance of being caught means a zero chance of committing crime, for there to be a monotonic relationship between increased chance of being caught and decreased chance of crime.

Re: How Britain Exported Next-Generation Surveillance

#55

Post by JetSpiegel » Sun, Jan 04, 2015, 9:47 PM UTC

dfc wrote: post #31

JetSpiegel wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use Policeman https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/policeman/ Or on Github for a more bleeding-edge version https://github.com/futpib/policeman/releases

I have always loved requestpolicy but for some reason something about RPContinued makes me nervous. Policeman would be a great alternative if Sync worked[^1]. I cant use policeman if it means I have to jump through the same hoops on every firefox installation in order to get things set up. [^1]: https://github.com/futpib/policeman/issues/28 Plus issues 92 and 95.

Policeman is still "beta", despite being quite usable. It just need polish.

Re: How Britain Exported Next-Generation Surveillance

#56

Post by teddyh » Sun, Jan 04, 2015, 10:00 PM UTC

yuvadam wrote: post #18

Everytime I try to explain why privacy matters, and why dragnet surveillance is one of the worst plagues of our times, I can't help but link to Glenn Greenwald's talk which explains it better than I ever could: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcSlowAhvUk

I find this 2006 column by Bruce Schneier to be most lucid and succinct:

The Eternal Value of Privacy

http://archive.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securi...

Re: How Britain Exported Next-Generation Surveillance

#57

Post by JetSpiegel » Sun, Jan 04, 2015, 10:00 PM UTC

MichaelCrawford wrote: post #45

lozf wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it depends where you are but UK cities are right up there with surveillance on public transport too, both trains and buses[0]. Transport for London have a system that detects if you're still on a platform after a train to each destination has departed, and alerts a human - ostensibly in case you're contemplating suicide or otherwise need help. It stands to reason that implementing the likes of facial recognit…

Fuck. I'm never leaving my house ever again.

They already now where you live, and you better tape your webcam.

Re: How Britain Exported Next-Generation Surveillance

#58

Post by JetSpiegel » Sun, Jan 04, 2015, 10:03 PM UTC

MichaelCrawford wrote: post #53

roel_v wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a few years there will be enough processing power to do facial recognition that will be accurate let's say 90% or so of the time. More than enough to track you everywhere where there is public transport.

Beards cause trouble for facial regulation. While I expect bears are the focus of much research, one way to screw with the system is to grow a beard for your ID photo, then shave it off - or vice-versa. However, women don't generally have beards, so I expect that facial recognition is more effective at identifying them than us men.

I bet at least some woman would rather grow beards than be tracked.

Re: How Britain Exported Next-Generation Surveillance

#59

Post by JetSpiegel » Sun, Jan 04, 2015, 10:09 PM UTC

funkyy wrote: post #25

pgeorgi wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In an attempt to help you find out where you stand on the issue (that is, I don't expect a response): 80% of sexual abuse of minors happens within existing social contexts, that is "family and friends". It would be useful to place cameras in every single private room and have them be automatically monitored and the live feed passed to some on-staff LEO when software considers anything suspect. Are you at peace with t…

Most of the issues could be fixed by proper social education. Proper and mandatory. Like mandatory schooling, starting at school level, going through to public/national mandatory TV time. Lets say 10 minutes a day in public/national TV in prime time. Where 5 could be spent on science and teaching and another 5 on social schooling. Quick facts and information. And not something like in Europe right now, where everyone…

"Hi, my name is Mark Zuckerberg. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, social media is good for you. For example, you can "like" Khan Academy and get a feed of interesting problems to solve."

Re: How Britain Exported Next-Generation Surveillance

#60

Post by tzs » Sun, Jan 04, 2015, 10:15 PM UTC

People worried about surveillance should read the story "The Dead Past" by Isaac Asimov. Here is a link to a copy of it [1]. It makes a point, which is probably not apparent until the twist ending, that is often overlooked (although I see a few commentators here have touched on it).

[1] http://www.redlibrary.net/ScienceFiction/Asimov41/27323.html