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Don't React (Presentation - Use arrows to navigate)

staltz.com

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Re: Don't React (Presentation - Use arrows to navigate)

#51

Instead of the down voting nonsense, read this: http://computationallyendowed.com/blog/2014/07/20/reactive-m... Basically: view m0 = r0 view (m1 = handler e0 m0) = r1 view (m2 = handler e1 m1) = r2 Or just down vote and learn nothing.

"Basically"? I'm finding it difficult to answer your post with anything other than incredulity. Either way this post doesn't negate the fact that the attitude presented in the OP pretty much stinks.

[deleted]

Re: Don't React (Presentation - Use arrows to navigate)

#52
post #38
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wow, what an aggressive way to promote your own little open source app. Yeah, makes me not want to try it. This guy should let someone else handle the marketing.

Maybe his marketing strategy was to only draw in people who use technology based on the merits of said technology and purposefully alienate the people who need an emotional connection to be convinced? I can certainly see the merits of trying to gain pragmatic mind share first before the buzzword technology crowd joins in and makes things more complicated.

> Reactive Programming is an Enlightened Path to Programming Utopia Yet to be Grokked By Mere Humans

Is this slide a joke I don't get? The whole presentation seems to focus on terminology and buzzwords more than discussing merits as far as I can tell.

EDIT: The authors commented and I'm going to assume this is an example of missing context.

Re: Don't React (Presentation - Use arrows to navigate)

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Basically"? I'm finding it difficult to answer your post with anything other than incredulity. Either way this post doesn't negate the fact that the attitude presented in the OP pretty much stinks.

Christ almighty, this is pathetic. Did you read the link?

Yes. Does it negate the bad attitude of the OP's presentation (no)? An attitude that you seem to share?

Re: Don't React (Presentation - Use arrows to navigate)

#54
React always feels to me to big a huge compromise between a nice statefree dataflow solution for UIs and "getting Javascripters en masse to actually use the damn thing". The entire existence of the state API is a highly visible example of this.

It reminds me a lot of Gabriel's divide between the New Jersey approach versus the MIT approach---React is far more viral in its current form, but better technology certain lives further down the path.

I went to the Boston React meetup a few nights ago to hear Pete Hunt speak about React. He was a wonderful speaker and described nicely how React learned some of the same lessons that REST did making it superior to basic message passing and bloated/leaky distributed object mechanisms (blech). He also projected a very pragmatic POV from the React dev team---they want things to be right, but they also want things to be functional in the perspective of the way most applications are built today.

I was eager and jumped on some of the problems he suggested the React time was facing trying to integrate something like animation into React. At this point we jump from a sequence of instantaneous updates to a more game-like continuous redraw effort. Pete mentioned that the current effort here was to try to use technology like RxJS observers to get more reactivity and this seems aligned with the OP here.

Personally, I think animation lives most nicely in the domain of continuous time, "true" FRP which is mostly ignored by the current wave of Javascript FRP libraries. Perhaps for good reason since most modern implementations ideas of (again, "true") FRP are challenging to implement efficiently and the semantic model is probably far too large (Zeno processes, difficulty with infinitesimal delay).

But the advantage of FRP is that you can specify things like animation independently of the icky details like event passing and sampling rate and let those be determined at a later time when your FRP eDSL gets compiled into a more refined event-passing network. In other words, FRP languages hide a vast number of irrelevant and muddying details in a way that has a consistent denotation and can (perhaps!) be compiled efficiently into a push/pull message passing network.

Re: Don't React (Presentation - Use arrows to navigate)

#56

He implies that Grunt is dead on the first slide. Well don't I feel stupid since I still use it. I guess it's not cool anymore? I missed the memo. Wait, maybe I'm not cool? What do the cool kids use now instead of Grunt?

Seriously, is no one using Grunt? I know there was a backlash at all the Grunt like tools that came out at the time, but I assumed it was still useful and regularly in use / updated.

Re: Don't React (Presentation - Use arrows to navigate)

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Christ almighty, this is pathetic. Did you read the link?

Yes. Does it negate the bad attitude of the OP's presentation (no)? An attitude that you seem to share?

I was excited to see cyclejs show up in HN, because it is a brilliant continuation of the React virtual DOM paradigm. How he presented his material is not revelent to me since the information is so valuable. However, instead of focusing on that information, folks want to focus on their feelings and other foolishness. I'm too old for that nonsense. This is extremely valuable information for people who like frontend development. I hope people can gain something from it without get lost in the weeds of internet circlejerks.

Re: Don't React (Presentation - Use arrows to navigate)

#59
Presentation author here. I should have taken this down before it popped up on HN or elsewhere. The video of this presentation is worth watching, because it's tongue-in-cheek through-out. But the slides are not worth reading, otherwise people take it seriously like it's happening here now. Cycle isn't the solution to everything, it's just one guy's ongoing experiment.

Re: Don't React (Presentation - Use arrows to navigate)

#60

People are really missing the point here. Follow staltz on twitter, he really knows his stuff. React is very good, however it missing a few key things that would make it awesome and more consistent - namely compositional event processing. Where React falls short from perfect is by using imperative code for its lifecycle functions. He's not bashing React, he's educating you about an even better way. If you care about…

Not bashing React? Are we reading different presentations?
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