Live data from Hacker News

Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

washingtonpost.com

51–60 of 165 posts

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#51
First of all, Google isn't to blame for this trend and Google's open-plan offices, although flawed, are more spacious and better planned than what most companies use. I've seen startups and banks under the 100 SF/employee barrier.

Second, it's not even the noise that wrecks people but visibility from behind ("open-back visibility"). That's not because people are constantly hiding things. It suggests low status and makes it hard (and stressful) to perform at one's best.

There are environments where open-plan offices are better, but they're rare. One is a trading floor, where seconds matter (a lot) and information must be broadcast quickly and verbally (i.e. yelling). Unless there's a real-time sensitivity to what they're doing, programmers are better off with more privacy.

If you are going to use an open-plan office, the least you can do is to give everyone a 7-foot wall at his or her back.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#52
Ugh, open offices are toxic for development. Low cubicles are almost as bad, tall cubicles are almost tolerable. Barring private offices for everyone, my best experience was with a very large office occupied by my team (myself and two others).

The shared space is much more tolerable when everyone is part of the same role (developer in this case), meaning approximately the same sensitivity to interruptions, the same frequency of phone conversations, etc. Contrast that with the open office I worked in, with Customer Service and Sales folks mixed in with sysadmins and developers. That environment isn't good for anyone: the devs are irritated by all the chatter from the CSR and Sales folks, who in turn feel guilty even though it's their job to be jabbering on the phone all day. Ironically, the office space was occupied largely by people who were rarely IN those offices because they were all in meetings constantly.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#53

Open offices are type A/extroverted personality wet dreams. Everybody they need is within earshot and they can see EVERYTHING so they can properly control everything. However for introverts, people with noise sensitivity, or people with ADD this is an absolute nightmare. I find a lot of engineers tend to be either introverts or have some type of manageable ADD so it doesn't surprise me that many people would be negat…

As someone with a mild amount of ADD, I disagree completely here. The Internet is way more distracting than people moving around in my field of vision. Having a private office gives me the privacy that I need to "Internet" and that winds up driving down productivity more than I would care to admit. While I haven't actually experienced an open office plan recently, I actually welcome the change to see what effect it would have on my productivity.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#54

I'll play contrarian for a moment: the most productive office I've ever worked in was an open office layout. What worked for us: * Separate clusters by function / noise level -- We didn't put sales people and developers next to one another. People who spent all day on the phone were near other people who spent all day on the phone. * Keep clusters small -- We had 4 person "pods" of desks for most of our early lifecyc…

Your advice is on the same level as "eat healthy" and "exercise more". It's nice, we should all do it, however for some people it never happens.

And here's the problem - some people just cannot be respectful of other people's time or flow and also you can find a lot of variation between communication styles (e.g. synchronous vs asynchronous) or noise tolerance of people.

For example, some people only want to work from home, whereas I cannot work from home, but on the other hand I need a very distractions free environment. I have really good and respectful colleagues and yet I find myself saying no to requests and interruptions several times per day even, actively declining attempts at synchronous communications between us, just so I could get anything done. This happens to the point of becoming nauseating, not only because "Alex, can you talk?" is distracting enough, but also because I have to say NO a lot. And I'm probably labeled as being a jerk, yet I cannot help being one, because contrary to other people, I really, really need to be left alone when focusing on something.

On your experience, I'm not arguing that the open office in question wasn't productive for you or for your close peers, but have you asked the others about it?

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#55
I thought it has been solved years ago. Open offices have the same benefits as huge halls in a 20th century industrial factories as long as workers are doing "routine, mechanical tasks". Filing forms, coding html, translating a small specifications into Java code, any kind of a "drone work" - repetitive tasks with a little or no variation - could be done in an open space with the best benefits/costs ratio for an employer.

The only kind of work which cannot be done efficiently in a constant noise and distractions are these "engineering tasks" which require intense mental concentration (or what they usually call "meditating on a problem").

But such kind of high-skilled jobs are about 5% (and the best guys have their rooms, because they are worth it) so there is no wonder that 90% is an open space.

An example of such a task, which requires a quiet place would be "analyzing and decomposing an unfamiliar problem domain into a reasonable, valid metrics/heuristics to be used within machine-learning algorithms, given that you have no PhD in ML or problem domain's field". Very common scenario, isn't it?

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#56
post #19

Open plan offices: 30% drop in productivity for a 20% drop in real estate costs.

Plus an approximately 0% chance of hiring anybody who currently has their own private office, unless you have something really special to offer (considerably above-market compensation or prestige or a position on a remarkably interesting project).

I went from private office to open floor plan when I switched jobs last. It was towards the bottom of things I cared about when I was considering the move.

Private offices are definitely nice, but I also enjoy the positives of an open office

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#57
I work on a large open-plan floor. My two 24" screens completely fill my field of view. My earphones block my ears and fill them with beautiful, not very loud, flow-inducing music. A low wall separate my desk from passing people.

On the other hand, when I want to give my eyes some rest, I can focus on Manhattan high-rises in the window. When I need to talk to my colleagues face to face, or just see if they are at their desks, it is easy to do, too. If we need to talk for more than a minute, we could walk to the coffee point of to a meeting room.

I can imagine an open space implemented badly: people cramped together, with little elbow room, phone-talking sales reps next to code-laden programmers next to number-crunching financial guys, and no meeting rooms. I won't like such a setup either.

But from where I sit, the open space plan looks pretty okay.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#58

I'll play contrarian for a moment: the most productive office I've ever worked in was an open office layout. What worked for us: * Separate clusters by function / noise level -- We didn't put sales people and developers next to one another. People who spent all day on the phone were near other people who spent all day on the phone. * Keep clusters small -- We had 4 person "pods" of desks for most of our early lifecyc…

Interesting. Curious, have you also had developers working on glossy Apple monitors and MacBook Pros with 8Gb of memory?

edit: a clarification. It is ridiculous to put backend/Linux developers on Macs with 8Gb of memory on which it is nearly impossible to run a virtual machine. And glossy monitors are very good for designers in light-controlled rooms, not so for developers, who can see every ceilings light in theirs.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#59
Yeah, cutting costs and Taylorian big brotherism.

Effectively companies trade productivity for higher transparency and cheaper office space. What happened to the need to actually maximize productivity?

To give the benefit of doubt it is plausible people might confuse open plan offices with team rooms.

Post reply on HN