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Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

bloomberg.com

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Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#51

Post by hyperbovine »

debacle wrote: post #42
tootie wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or that cigar imports is probably the most utterly trivial and selfish thing to consider in this move.

I find that anyone against this reunion is doing it because of something utterly trivial and selfish.

When I was in Cuba, a lot of people I talked to were obviously in favor of lifting the embargo, but others expressed misgivings about what it would do to their culture and society. Cuba is an indescribably weird place where almost everybody is (on paper anyways) poor, yet education, health care and the arts flourish. Violent crime is virtually unheard of, say what you will about how they achieve that. They are very proud of their resilience in the face of a half-century's worth of crippling U.S. sanctions--in particular the period after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Normalization will lead to a rise in the Cuban material standard of living, and with it will come all of the attendant social woes that we have here. That's neither totally good nor totally bad, and it should be up to the Cuban people to choose their own path, but I can see why you might oppose this for other than purely selfish reasons.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#52

Post by EC1 »

mathattack wrote: post #47
iandanforth wrote: post #7

I've visited Cuba on a Canadian passport. Aside from the beautiful beaches the thing that struck me most was the desperate poverty of people living in shacks outside the 5 star resorts. While I hesitate to predict that this change will be all for the good, I do believe that the poorest in Cuba will benefit significantly from increased trade.

When you start from such a low base, there is enormous room for growth. The question is what can they export? Cigars? Medical personnel?

Beautiful women.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#53

Post by Amezarak »

themartorana wrote: post #32
kmfrk wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obama calling for Congress to act is what we in this year of our Lord 2014 call "trolling".

Have to agree. What does Obama have to lose by just going out on a limb and ending a horribly failed policy? Realizing of course there are so many others he promised to end and hasn't...

> Have to agree. What does Obama have to lose by just going out on a limb and ending a horribly failed policy?

Because "like so many others" he simply doesn't have the power to; it requires Congressional approval. I suppose he could do what you want and unilaterally declare it over, but that would be a very clear breach of power and would result in many moderates and liberals decrying his overreach. It would end up - at the least - the subject of legal action and an injunction and perhaps even spur bipartisan support for impeachment proceedings.

The power of the Presidency is in general greatly exaggerated by the media. The President has broad power to set the agenda (which the rest of the government and the country is largely free to ignore) and has some power over policy/legal execution (particularly within foreign affairs), and over the military, but that's about it. Even within the executive branch the President is not as all-powerful as the media or even high schools tend to imply: even excluding agencies that are altogether independent, the President generally cannot walk in and tell people what to do.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#54

Post by glup »

valarauca1 wrote: post #5

This is actually (amusingly) incredibly unpopular in cigar circles who are calling this the "end of an era". Most discussions seems to center around the doom and gloom of quality dropping and prices increasing as the US/Cuban cigar market opens and the demand for CC increases. No discussion on the legality of owning CC changing amusingly. As apparently everyone forgets that smoking a Cuban Cigar can be considered an…

Agriculture, including tobacco production, accounts for only approximately 4% of Cuban GDP--after heavyweights like tourism (embargo just prevents Americans from going there), gas export, industrial production, and the medical sector. Of greater interest to HN readers than the implications for one trivial luxury good, Cuba has one of the greatest mismatches between literacy (~97%) and telecom development and accessibility (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_Cuba) in the world.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#55

Post by debacle »

hyperbovine wrote: post #51
debacle wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that anyone against this reunion is doing it because of something utterly trivial and selfish.

When I was in Cuba, a lot of people I talked to were obviously in favor of lifting the embargo, but others expressed misgivings about what it would do to their culture and society. Cuba is an indescribably weird place where almost everybody is (on paper anyways) poor, yet education, health care and the arts flourish. Violent crime is virtually unheard of, say what you will about how they achieve that. They are very p…

Cuba flaunts the US hegemony from right under their noses, but they have great wealth in their geographic location, and their society. Cuba could become the Switzerland of the western hemisphere given the right outset.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#56

Post by washedup »

glup wrote: post #54
valarauca1 wrote: post #5

This is actually (amusingly) incredibly unpopular in cigar circles who are calling this the "end of an era". Most discussions seems to center around the doom and gloom of quality dropping and prices increasing as the US/Cuban cigar market opens and the demand for CC increases. No discussion on the legality of owning CC changing amusingly. As apparently everyone forgets that smoking a Cuban Cigar can be considered an…

Agriculture, including tobacco production, accounts for only approximately 4% of Cuban GDP--after heavyweights like tourism (embargo just prevents Americans from going there), gas export, industrial production, and the medical sector. Of greater interest to HN readers than the implications for one trivial luxury good, Cuba has one of the greatest mismatches between literacy (~97%) and telecom development and accessib…

Good point. Lot's of opportunity will open up for the people of Cuba and developers in the US if connections are made and firewalls come down.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#57

Post by ghayes »

glup wrote: post #54
valarauca1 wrote: post #5

This is actually (amusingly) incredibly unpopular in cigar circles who are calling this the "end of an era". Most discussions seems to center around the doom and gloom of quality dropping and prices increasing as the US/Cuban cigar market opens and the demand for CC increases. No discussion on the legality of owning CC changing amusingly. As apparently everyone forgets that smoking a Cuban Cigar can be considered an…

Agriculture, including tobacco production, accounts for only approximately 4% of Cuban GDP--after heavyweights like tourism (embargo just prevents Americans from going there), gas export, industrial production, and the medical sector. Of greater interest to HN readers than the implications for one trivial luxury good, Cuba has one of the greatest mismatches between literacy (~97%) and telecom development and accessib…

Note: Americans could previously go there; you just couldn't go directly from America.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#58

Post by soperj »

infecto wrote: post #27
sremani wrote: post #14

In 2008 G W Bush has removed North Korea from Embargo list, and embargo has to be renewed every year based on "some" Enemy Act of 1917. Cuba is the only country in US embargo list, I understand it is personal as Cuba is just few miles away from US, but still the embargo is inhumane and people are suffering. John Oliver has a very interesting piece on his HBO show.

Unfortunately I do not think this is the full truth. I believe there should not be an embargo BUT the embargo is not the main cause of poverty in Cuba. Cuba has a huge tourism industry. A lot of the business that serve tourists are state owned. Where does this money go? Everything from hotels to restaurants are state owned. Who is profiting here? I think at this point its less personal and more choice. Cuba chooses t…

Technically wouldn't it be everyone profiting since it's going to government? If it was an foriegn business owner like alot of resorts in the bahamas, who would be profiting there? Certainly not the people living on the island.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#60

Post by glup »

mathattack wrote: post #47
iandanforth wrote: post #7

I've visited Cuba on a Canadian passport. Aside from the beautiful beaches the thing that struck me most was the desperate poverty of people living in shacks outside the 5 star resorts. While I hesitate to predict that this change will be all for the good, I do believe that the poorest in Cuba will benefit significantly from increased trade.

When you start from such a low base, there is enormous room for growth. The question is what can they export? Cigars? Medical personnel?

One of the lasting myths emerging from American rhetoric is that Cuba is starting from a low base. In fact the per capita GDP (as well as quality of life) is approximately on par with Panama and far exceeds the Dominican Republic, Haiti, Jamaica, and Nicaragua. Tourism will remain the major source of foreign currency, but I think this change will lead to further development in pharmaceuticals and telecom.
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